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Posted by Donna on October 02, 1996 at 21:33:35:
: Wonderful, entertaining story. Quite a bit included in such a small space.
: What my desire is, is to see a televised sequel (with the original cast from P&P2 reprising their roles--everyone) that is acted out in front of a live audience. Like a stage play. And the funny moments would produce hearty laughter from the audience. I wouldn't have thought of this except for a dream I had right before I discovered this discussion site. In the dream it was a prequel actually (taking place while Darcy and Lizzy are engaged) and anytime Darcy or others said something humorous, I heard rollicking laughter in the background. It got me to thinking of how enjoyable the humour of the original story is and how delightful to get audience interaction.
: Shortly after that I went to see Emma with a very enthusiastic audience who laughed more than I have heard at most comedies.
: To get back more to the point, I had thought too that the conflicts would rise around them, and Lizzy and Darcy would only spar now and then but basically would be the anchors for those adrift around them--like Mr. and Mrs. Gardiner.
: -Ramona
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I always thought that the Col.Fitzwilliam should marry Miss Bingley but of course she is still in love
with Mr. Darcy and this way she can still be around him. Think this would make a very interesting conflict
for Elizabeth who would have to tolerate her being around,{ because the Col. and Mr. Darcy are such good friends}.
If such day that Lizzie's husband might ever find her attractive. He might need a shoulder to cry
on. Lizzie could possibly reject him for some reason or another. There's old duckface in time of rejection.
Oh about Georgiana I always thought she should marry a shipping mogel, industrialist or a man with insight to inventions.
Someone brilliant beyond his years. I would think you would want the drama kept with the Darcy's of course it all works out
in the end.
Donna,
Posted by Ann on October 03, 1996 at 00:41:44:
: : Maureen:
:
At the end of the P&P adaptation , at the wedding scene in fact, Miss Bingley is standing directly next to Col. Fitzwilliam. I believe she is holding on to his arm. I thoought that they had gotten married, or were engaged. I'll have to review it, but i could have sworn she had a ring on.....
I figured, with Darcy married, Lady C. would try to hook
Fitzwilliam for Anne.
Ann
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Posted by Ann2 on October 03, 1996 at 00:57:41:
:
: : Austen would feel right at home in the discussions here. It appears that she also enjoyed treating her characters as if they were real people - in the introduction in my copy of the book she is reported to have gone to a portrait gallery with the intention of finding portraits of "Mrs Bingley" (Jane) and "Mrs. Darcy" (Lizzie), and wrote to ther sister Cassandra that she had found "a small portrait of Mrs Bingley, excessively like her. I went in hopes of finding one of her Sister, but there was no Mrs. Darcy; - perhaps however, I may find her in the Great Exhibition which we shall go to, if we have time..." She went on to say that "Mrs. Bingley's is exactly herself, size, shaped face, features & sweetness: there never was a greater likeness. She is dressed in a white gown, with green ornaments, which convinces me of what I had always supposed, that green was a favourite color with her. I dare say Mrs. D. will be in Yellow."
: : Joan, too
: Did Jane Austen tell Cassandra whose portraits they were? It would be interesting to be able to see her concept of Jane and Lizzy.
: Cheryl
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Jane Austen did make a remark after not beeing able to find any portrait of Lizzie, that probably Mr Darcy would not want a portrait of her to be shown in public. He would have that kind of protective feeling about that. (This is from memory and are not her exact words)
It is alovely thought of hers though. I agree with Joan too, just imagine what discussions we could have if she was here to comment. Would we dare be so bold and pick on her "darling child"? And she would not have seen P&P" I suppose...
Ann2
Posted by Ann2 on October 03, 1996 at 01:21:23:
: : Amy:
:
You know, when you outline it like that, there could be a followup production. With all the Lizzy telling mom stuff in the novel proper, then all the epilogue stuff: the Christmas end (like Annie (the play)); Lady Catherine reconciling herself and deining to visit; Lydia and Wickham staying too long with the Bingleys. There's a good 2 hours worth based on JA own words.
I would like it to start when Mrs B was looking out the window says:Goodgracious, if that disagreeable Mr Darcy is not coming again with our dear Mr Bingley! What can he mean by being so tiresome as to be always coming here? (What indeed)...And later telling Lizzie that she is sorry for her that she must have thar disagreeable man all to herself. It is all for Jane´s sake!!
Ann2
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Posted by Joan, too on October 03, 1996 at 01:24:39:
: : Yes, and in fact I happen to have some first-hand knowledge about the story on which that movie is based (but not anyone's role in it). The plot is fact based (but not documentary) and portrays what happened to over 600 Dutch, British and Australian women who were imprisoned in a series of Japanese prison camps on Sumatra during WWII. In order to stay sane, what has since been called a "vocal orchestra" was formed. Two of the women wrote out classical orchestral music from memory and arranged it for four-part women's voices - no words; just singing the notes on neutral syllables.
: :
: That is really amazing and inspiring.
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Brigid, I could not find an e-mail address for you here, but I would be honored if you would favor me with an e-mail message to which I could reply. :-)
Joan, too
(in case "reply to" does not work in your browser, winsor@briones.palo-alto.ca.us)
Posted by Cheryl on October 03, 1996 at 01:27:25:
: Does anyone else feel that when Lizzie says to her father about Darcy "he is truly the best man I have ever known" it's a little bit of a put down to her father? I don't recall Lizzie using these exact words in the book.
I do not believe Lizzy said this to intentionally hurt her father. And much as she and we love his wit and humour, we must acknowledge, as does Lizzy in the book, that Mr. Bennet has not been the best of parents. He has abandoned his parental duties and retreated into his library. His neglect in leaving the raising of his younger daughters to his wife (whom he knows has not a lick of sense), his propensity to give in because it is too much trouble to stand up to his wife and daughters, inevitably lead to the two main crises the Bennet family faces; he has not saved money for the girls dowries, and Lydia has grown up wild and irretrievably stupid.
Lizzy loves her father, but when compared to a man of real substance such as Darcy, he cannot help but be proved inferior. Darcy *is* the best man she has ever known.
Cheryl
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Posted by Catherine on October 03, 1996 at 05:18:17:
I thought that Adrian Lukis was poorly cast as Wickham. Wickham is meant to be extremely attractive - in the book Mrs Gardiner says that Darcy does not have Wickham's countenance (which natually encompasses more than looks). I felt that if a better looking actor had been cast it would have made Elizabeth's attraction to him more credible (ie blinded by his looks).
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Posted by Carolyn on October 03, 1996 at 06:58:37:
: In the book Mrs. Gardiner said "that he is not as handsome as Whickham" or rather he has not his countenance for his features are perfectly good." Also she said "There is something pleasing
: about his mouth when he speaks". "There is something of dignity in his countenance that would give you a favorable idea of his heart".
: So if you have a pleasing countenance your looks aren't very important. Why mention handsome or the way he looks. Was he as handsome as Whickham.
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In the book when Darcy first appears at the dance in Meryton he is considered very handsome for the first of the evening, until his behavior makes it seem as if he has a forbidding, disagreeable countenance. When Wickham appears at Mrs. Phillips he is "pleasing to every female eye" (I think I have the quote right) and was agreeable to everyone. I think that Wickham has to appear as better than Darcy (at least on the surface) in order for Lizzie and the rest to be taken in by him.
Posted by Carolyn on October 03, 1996 at 07:00:14:
: In the book Mrs. Gardiner said "that he is not as handsome as Whickham" or rather he has not his countenance for his features are perfectly good." Also she said "There is something pleasing
: about his mouth when he speaks". "There is something of dignity in his countenance that would give you a favorable idea of his heart".
: So if you have a pleasing countenance your looks aren't very important. Why mention handsome or the way he looks. Was he as handsome as Whickham.
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In the book when Darcy first appears at the dance in Meryton he is considered very handsome for the first of the evening, until his behavior makes it seem as if he has a forbidding, disagreeable countenance. When Wickham appears at Mrs. Phillips he is "pleasing to every female eye" (I think I have the quote right) and was agreeable to everyone. I think that Wickham has to appear as better than Darcy (at least on the surface) in order for Lizzie and the rest to be taken in by him.
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Posted by Carolyn on October 03, 1996 at 07:01:46:
: : In the book Mrs. Gardiner said "that he is not as handsome as Whickham" or rather he has not his countenance for his features are perfectly good." Also she said "There is something pleasing
: : about his mouth when he speaks". "There is something of dignity in his countenance that would give you a favorable idea of his heart".
: : So if you have a pleasing countenance your looks aren't very important. Why mention handsome or the way he looks. Was he as handsome as Whickham.
:
: ___________________
: In the book when Darcy first appears at the dance in Meryton he is considered very handsome for the first of the evening, until his behavior makes it seem as if he has a forbidding, disagreeable countenance. When Wickham appears at Mrs. Phillips he is "pleasing to every female eye" (I think I have the quote right) and was agreeable to everyone. I think that Wickham has to appear as better than Darcy (at least on the surface) in order for Lizzie and the rest to be taken in by him.
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I ment to say "first part of the evening".
Posted by Anne on October 03, 1996 at 07:15:40:
: : : Maureen:
: :
At the end of the P&P adaptation , at the wedding scene in fact, Miss Bingley is standing directly next to Col. Fitzwilliam. I believe she is holding on to his arm. I thoought that they had gotten married, or were engaged. I'll have to review it, but i could have sworn she had a ring on.....
Posted by Lori T on October 03, 1996 at 07:31:24:
:
: ___________________
: I would like it to start when Mrs B was looking out the window says:Goodgracious, if that disagreeable Mr Darcy is not coming again with our dear Mr Bingley! What can he mean by being so tiresome as to be always coming here? (What indeed)...And later telling Lizzie that she is sorry for her that she must have thar disagreeable man all to herself. It is all for Jane´s sake!!
: Ann2
That is one of my favorite parts!!!
Posted by Brigid on October 03, 1996 at 08:20:25:
: What I like about this scene:
: Check out Lizzy's look when her father remarks on how it would be impossible not to give his consent to such a man as Darcy.
: Lizzy positively beams with pride at the idea that Darcy is so powerful. I like the idea that he is as well and feel quite woozy earlier when he so forcefully informs Mr Gardiner that he will not give way.
: Amy
:
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I also loved the section when Darcy was talking with Mr. Gardiner. He is not a man to be trifled with. I do miss the subtext that was in the book however with regard to the Gardiners. I liked the fact that they caught right away that Darcy was in love with Lizzie and that that is part of the reason that Mr. Gardiner gives in.
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Posted by Mary on October 03, 1996 at 08:43:19:
: Can anyone enlight me as to why the Bennet girls were not entitled to inherit their father's estate, but Ann De-Bourgh was to inherrit Rosings?
: ___________________
:
: Oh boy. If there ever was a time for HC. I'll start but cannot pretend to cover it either adequetely or accurately.
: According to the book, What Jane Austen Knew and Charles Dickens Ate (yeah, I know, there are some inaccuracies in it) the laws were made to preserve the great estates -- to keep them together. If property went in its entirely to the oldest son (or lacking that, entirely to the nearest thing to an oldest son) then the great estates could not be subdivided or sold off so easily by a Wickham or Willoughby type. How a family got their estates out of the system, I don't know. There was quite a lot of discussion on the Austen list lately about this and specificially how Mr Bennet might have ended the entail. You can always search the Austen-L archives if you want to know a lot about it, but maybe HC would be so kind as to either summarize for us, or more likely point us to a place where he has already summarized it.
: BTW my absolute favorite fictional treatment of the law is Bleak House. Every law student ought to be required to read and understand it.
:
: Amy
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There is a good summary on the Jane Austen Info Page. You can find the link to the page under *Links* on this site. I read part of P&P on that
site and they had a convenient link to a spot which explained what an entail was. (Though the discussion here has summarized it about as well.) The
reason Anne de Bourgh could inherit Rosings was because there was no entail on that estate. Women could also inherit if there were no male heirs
left in any branch of the family.
Mary
Posted by Annie on October 03, 1996 at 10:07:22:
: Johanna wrote:
:
: Heads up to any who may contemplate reading this little terror of a sequel: Don't bother. Jane Austen is probably spinning in her grave.
: : I will have to reread P&P to erase this horrible picture of Regency Peyton Place!!!
Thanks for the warning. Every few years I get an itch to try one of the sequels but can't bring myself to do it. Your review will serve as further desirable Lady Russelling.
I don't know, some the sequels are better than others. Jane Fairfax by Aiken and the Sanditon continuation by Dobbs aren't that bad, and people say
: that Pemberley Shades by Bonavia-Hunt and Jane and the Unpleasantness at Scargrave Manor are good reads
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: I don't know about this sequels business. I read "Pemberley" last year, and it was just dreadful! I am currently reading "Pemberley Shades" by Bonavia-Hunt. I am only in the first chapter, and I'm not sure how I like it, but at least it is better than "Pemberley"!
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Posted by Zachary Jo on October 03, 1996 at 10:40:47:
Mr. Collins dances so incredibly chicken-like. Did anybody notice?
Anyone interested in a Mr. Collins fan club? I fell in love with his dancing the moment I saw it!
It was so... so... interesting. Just look at how he swept Lizzy off her feet, or rather, bumped her off her feet!
"Other way Mr.Collins!" Responses anyone?
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