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Posted by Cheryl on October 02, 1996 at 00:46:54:
: Austen would feel right at home in the discussions here. It appears that she also enjoyed treating her characters as if they were real people - in the introduction in my copy of the book she is reported to have gone to a portrait gallery with the intention of finding portraits of "Mrs Bingley" (Jane) and "Mrs. Darcy" (Lizzie), and wrote to ther sister Cassandra that she had found "a small portrait of Mrs Bingley, excessively like her. I went in hopes of finding one of her Sister, but there was no Mrs. Darcy; - perhaps however, I may find her in the Great Exhibition which we shall go to, if we have time..." She went on to say that "Mrs. Bingley's is exactly herself, size, shaped face, features & sweetness: there never was a greater likeness. She is dressed in a white gown, with green ornaments, which convinces me of what I had always supposed, that green was a favourite color with her. I dare say Mrs. D. will be in Yellow."
: Joan, too
Did Jane Austen tell Cassandra whose portraits they were? It would be interesting to be able to see her concept of Jane and Lizzy.
Cheryl
Follow Ups:
Posted by Arnessa on October 02, 1996 at 01:03:23:
: : Arnessa,
: : I love this. I always thought Kitty had possibilities and you have given them to her.
:
: ___________________
: Funny plot. But I think Jane Austen told her relatives that
: Kitty married a clergyman near Pemperly.
: I also think that Darcy would be rather careful about meddling
: in other peoples lovelifes (since the mistakes he made in P&P).
: but he would surely be careful and check out any man that approached
: georgiana.but he would hardly trie to persuade her to anything
: she did not wanted.In P&P he hoped originally that she maybe should
: come to like Bingley.but he does not seem to have done anything
: to actively push her I think he loved her to much to do that.
: As for Lizzy and Darcy I think they lived mostly happily but as someone
: wrote with two strong personalities as them they must have disagreed
: sometimes.Their marriage must have had crises and disagreaments like
: all other marriages but I think the sorted them out.Darcys pride
: can have caused problems sometimes maybe he got jelaous sometime?
: As for Sequels some on the firthlist have written some tiny bits
: about what happened after the wedding (just little bits).
: Anna-Karin
___________________
One hates to be at odds with Austen. Maybe I could tweak the ending a bit. Kitty gets a proposal from the Earl, but to the shock of Miss Bingley, Anne, and to the extreme distress of her mother (I imagine a wonderful cameo here), she turns him down preferring instead to wed the nice, quiet, well-mannered clergyman whom no one's noticed up to this point, but who's had Kitty's heart all along. The earl, disappointed but not desperate, decides to leave on a trip abroad since his real dream all along has been to travel as he once told Kitty during one of their long chats. So the earl finally gets away from his controlling mother, and Anne is doubly enraged because she thought Kitty was the only obstacle to her marrying the earl.
I don't know how much Darcy's really learned his lesson about meddling in other people's lives'. It seems to me Darcy would be extremely anxious about his sister's choice of husband, and though he might not directly interfere, I think he would feel the importance of her marrying well. There were different standards for men and women. And I can see him rationalizing that while he's found happiness with Lizzy and Bingley's found happiness with Jane, men can enjoy the privilege of marrying a little beneath them (of course I'm speaking in terms of social standing) but women cannot. Don't you think it would have been unusual for the heiress of 30,000 pounds to marry a physician back then? I don't know if she would have been shut out of "good society," but I have a feeling many would think she'd gone down a notch or two in society.
-Arnessa.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann2 on October 02, 1996 at 01:03:48:
: : : : I learned only today that the Firthlisters have been trashing us, or me or this board or something. I don't read the digests everyday and missed the damning posts. Anna-Karin or Laura, pray write and tell the nature of this slander for I am quite astonished to hear of it.
: : : : Are we too uneducated in Firthlore? Too prissy? I don't understand. I have always enjoyed reading the posts there and have delighted in the difference from this place in style, tone, character. Hurts my feelings a little. Please tell so I won't imagine worse.
: : : : Amy
: : : :
: : : Really? but why? Too bad if it is true.
: : : I read them from time to time and enjoy it too.
: : : I thought we were all on the same boat, that is, addict to P&P, and adore Firth.
: : : However, I think we may be a bit open minded, we are allowed to adore others, such as Hinds, Rupert, Sewell...:)
: : What is this?
: : Would anyone be so kind as to give me the adress to the firthlist? Is it a group like this ore is it
: : some e-mail subscription?
: : I have read alot of Firth facts, Faqs, fantasies and so forth but have I missed their way of exchanging opinions?
: : Ann2
: I am a proud swedish member of the firthlist and the only so far.So
: Obs. in swedish: Sa jag skulle valdigt garna se att vi blev fler från sverige an bara
: lilla jag det finns 2 fran finland och 1 fran Norge den har helgen ligger
: listan nere efter som listdrotningen ar borta over helgen men den kommer
: igang igen pa mandag min e-mail adress ar anna-karin.schander@mailbox.swipnet.se.
: : Exuse me for writing something in swedish here but
: it is my only way to reach Ann2
: Anna-Karin Schander
Have no fear Anna-Karin, you are *not* the only Swedish participant in this deligthful exchange of opinion. I just do not see that our nationality has got anything to do with it all.
I kind of like the idea that we are all kindred spirits from -maybe not Firthland but some realm of Darcy fanatics within a very easy distance from it. Then there are the lurkers who
read this page but have not yet opened their virtual mouth.
Om du undrar var du ska få tag i filmer, no we must not use anything but English, that would be a sign of no breeding at all. So what I mean is, if you have trouble finding films or books
please do not hesitate to ask me.
Best wishes and hej så länge!
Ann2
Posted by Cheryl on October 02, 1996 at 01:07:30:
: I will be taking the books and videos on vacation with me for relaxation.
: I did draw the line however at buying a laptop so that I could log on
: to this site while away from home -- I have a modicum of sense left!!!
: However, I will probably have to spend my entire first day back
: catching up.
: Anne
Dear Anne, a week away from us, how shall you survive? My ISP was down most of Monday and Tuesday and I was beginning to get desperate. I almost went to my brothers house (with whom I get along very ill indeed) so that I could catch up on this BB! I was finally able to log on tonight and have been catching up on all the postings, and mourning missing my chance to put my oar in, so to speak, about some of the wonderful topics brought up in my short absence. Please enjoy your vacation. We shall be here when you return.
Cheryl
Posted by Joan, too on October 02, 1996 at 01:07:49:
: Cheryl:
: Did Jane Austen tell Cassandra whose portraits they were? It would be interesting to be able to see her concept of Jane and Lizzy.
No - there is a footnote to this quotation that says: "It is interesting to speculate which painters Jane Austen might have been looking at in London in 1813, apart from Reynolds. The possibilities could include Gainsborough and George Romney, though more recent portraits would have been done by Sir Thomas Lawrence (1769-1825), Sir Henry Raeburn (1756-1823), John Hoppner (1758-1810) and Johan Zoffany (1723-1810)." A whole discussion of the various painting styles of the day follows. Reynnolds was ruled out as a possibility because he was guilty" of "correcting nature" by painting idealized portraits, not true to life ones. (This introduction is by Tony Tanner, c. 1972)
Joan, too
Posted by Ann2 on October 02, 1996 at 01:10:29:
: : : : I learned only today that the Firthlisters have been trashing us, or me or this board or something. I don't read the digests everyday and missed the damning posts. Anna-Karin or Laura, pray write and tell the nature of this slander for I am quite astonished to hear of it.
: : : : Are we too uneducated in Firthlore? Too prissy? I don't understand. I have always enjoyed reading the posts there and have delighted in the difference from this place in style, tone, character. Hurts my feelings a little. Please tell so I won't imagine worse.
: : : : Amy
: : : :
: : : Really? but why? Too bad if it is true.
: : : I read them from time to time and enjoy it too.
: : : I thought we were all on the same boat, that is, addict to P&P, and adore Firth.
: : : However, I think we may be a bit open minded, we are allowed to adore others, such as Hinds, Rupert, Sewell...:)
: : What is this?
: : Would anyone be so kind as to give me the adress to the firthlist? Is it a group like this ore is it
: : some e-mail subscription?
: : I have read alot of Firth facts, Faqs, fantasies and so forth but have I missed their way of exchanging opinions?
: : Ann2
: I am a proud swedish member of the firthlist and the only so far.So
: Obs. in swedish: Sa jag skulle valdigt garna se att vi blev fler från sverige an bara
: lilla jag det finns 2 fran finland och 1 fran Norge den har helgen ligger
: listan nere efter som listdrotningen ar borta over helgen men den kommer
: igang igen pa mandag min e-mail adress ar anna-karin.schander@mailbox.swipnet.se.
: : Exuse me for writing something in swedish here but
: it is my only way to reach Ann2
: Anna-Karin Schander
Have no fear Anna-Karin, you are *not* the only Swedish participant in this deligthful exchange of opinion. I just do not see that our nationality has got anything to do with it all.
I kind of like the idea that we are all kindred spirits from -maybe not Firthland but some realm of Darcy fanatics within a very easy distance from it. Then there are the lurkers who
read this page but have not yet opened their virtual mouth.
Om du undrar var du ska få tag i filmer, no we must not use anything but English, that would be a sign of no breeding at all. So what I mean is, if you have trouble finding films or books
please do not hesitate to ask me.
Best wishes and hej så länge!
Ann2
On a closer read-through I see I got it all wrong. Sorry, my e-mail is not working yet so I cannot contact you in private. But I sure would like to know how to join the firth-list.
Ann2
Follow Ups:
Posted by Arnessa on October 02, 1996 at 01:17:01:
: You Are GOOD!!! I havent had goose bumps like this since I first watched P&P.
: I like your version exceedingly.
___________________
You are very kind. I didn't intend to go on at such length when I started the post, but sometimes I am run away by my thoughts. Luckily, I have this forum as an outlet. If anyone else witnessed my obsession, they might be fitting me for a straight-jacked now.
I just kept imagining how funny it would be to have Darcy forced to live for a while under the same roof with the woman he had married, the woman he had been expected to marry, and the woman who had wanted to marry him! Hah!!! Wasn't there a questionnaire for Austen fans posted a few weeks ago asking who was another Austen hero in a similar situation? Was it Edward Ferrars who was in the same room with the woman he was going to marry, the woman he wanted to marry, and the woman he was expected to marry? Anyway, perhaps I've been too cruel, forcing the Darcys to face such trauma so early in their marriage, maybe Anne de Bourgh should move in right away.
-Arnessa.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Arnessa on October 02, 1996 at 01:20:52:
: : You Are GOOD!!! I havent had goose bumps like this since I first watched P&P.
: : I like your version exceedingly.
:
: ___________________
: You are very kind. I didn't intend to go on at such length when I started the post, but sometimes I am run away by my thoughts. Luckily, I have this forum as an outlet. If anyone else witnessed my obsession, they might be fitting me for a straight-jacked now.
: I just kept imagining how funny it would be to have Darcy forced to live for a while under the same roof with the woman he had married, the woman he had been expected to marry, and the woman who had wanted to marry him! Hah!!! Wasn't there a questionnaire for Austen fans posted a few weeks ago asking who was another Austen hero in a similar situation? Was it Edward Ferrars who was in the same room with the woman he was going to marry, the woman he wanted to marry, and the woman he was expected to marry? Anyway, perhaps I've been too cruel, forcing the Darcys to face such trauma so early in their marriage, maybe Anne de Bourgh should move in right away.
: -Arnessa.
___________________
Ooops, meant to say, maybe Anne de Bourgh should NOT move in right away.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Cheryl on October 02, 1996 at 01:25:47:
: Well, I think it could start with "You are all to come to Pemberly at Christmas" (from Lizzie's letter to her Aunt Gardiner) - the year after the weddings - so there would be opportunities for the various family members (for the characters are *all* now actually related in one way or another!) to acquaint one another with what has happened in their lives since most of them had last been together at the wedding... Of course Lydia would be there without Wickham, and the Collinses would bring their new baby, and this could be the occasion upon which Lady Catherine gave up on being left out of everything and condescended to come to Pemberley.
: Joan, too
I believe Lizzy meant to invite only the Gardiners and their children for Christmas. I cannot see even the "new and improved" Darcy having enough forbearance to be able to tolerate the entire Bennet/Lucas/Collins/Gardiner/DeBourgh/Wickham/Bingley/Hurst clans all at once (although I am sure there is room for them all at Pemberly- if necessary they could pitch some tents on the beautiful grounds.)
It makes me shudder to think of it!
Cheryl
Follow Ups:
Posted by Arnessa on October 02, 1996 at 01:28:49:
: Arnessa,
: I love this. I always thought Kitty had possibilities and you have given them to her.
___________________
Yes, we musn't be so quick to write off Kitty just because of her adventures with Lydia. Austen makes clear herself that Kitty becomes less irritable, her mind more improved when she's removed from Lydia's influence. And since Kitty's had to take a backseat to everyone else for so long, I imagine Kitty became a good listener. She would identify with someone who's adrift, who doesn't know what he wants to be or to do.
I love the idea of Kitty becoming the wife of an earl, because then she'd be known as Lady Catherine! But I've had a change of heart about the ending because of what Anna-Karin says about Austen's thoughts about a husband for Kitty. The ending could change a bit without too much harm. See my response to Anna-Karin's post.
-Arnessa.
Posted by Arnessa on October 02, 1996 at 01:45:16:
: : I could be wrong here, but I really feel they diverted from the original text of the masterpiece by making Jane one of the uglier sisters. Eliza was supposed to be less attractive.
: ___________________
:
: She was supposed to be beautiful in the book and in the film. Seems like if I was a guy I would prefer Lizzy, too, but I think Susanah Harker has something too, though not in so striking a way as the Janes in previous adaptations. She has a certain demure sweet blond kind of prettiness, just the kind the character is supposed to have. And I think I saw a review somewhere that called her ravishing.
: So, beholder, eye, all that.
: Of course, I will rarely admit to any bad casting in this production. It seems all nearly perfect to me.
: Amy
___________________
Interesting enough, since I've loaned out the videotapes to several of my colleagues, I have sort of an informal poll on this very subject. Surprisingly, most guys do find Suzanna Harker prettier than Jennifer Ehle in the adaptation. I was just as shocked as you are, and so were the women in my office. ALL of the women I loaned it too thought Lizzy was much prettier. I think Harker's Jane just had that sort of soft, quiet beauty that men really appreciate. Even the guys who loved Lizzy for her personality thought Jane was far prettier. True, the guys in my office could be a little abnormal. One thought Charlotte Lucas was the prettiest woman in the entire production. So who's the fairest of them all? What do the guys that visit this site think?
-Arnessa.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Arnessa on October 02, 1996 at 02:19:46:
: I list Walker's credits because she played Jane Fairfax and has been in a lot of pretty big movies, but I like Lottie and Rose best.
: Usually I subconsiously pick a character in a book or movie fairly early on in the story and identify with him or her. If the link does not come quickly or naturally then has to become conscious. In this case I had to conclude I was a combination of Nettie and Rose. I love how Nettie breaks free of her codependency and her husband loves her the better for it. That's how they tell you it's supposed to happen in Al-Anon, and I am sure, how it does work, when everybody wants the end depicted in this movie.
: Amy
I didn't read this before I saw the movie, but I immediately recognized that Polly Walker had played Jane Fairfax. There is something about her that is unforgettable, even when she plays a minor role. It's the eyes, I think. They're so haunting. I realize a lot of people think she was poorly cast as Jane Fairfax in Emma, but I'm not so sure. If they'd given her more lines, I think she could have made something out of the role. I always imagined Jane Fairfax would look out of place in Highbury, and Walker definitely looks out of place. She has sort of an exotic look, not British at all. Does anyone know her ancestry?
-Arnessa.
Posted by Arnessa on October 02, 1996 at 02:31:04:
Everytime I watch British films, I wonder if the whole country's batty or if I am. Then I wish in America we had as many eccentrics as the British seem to.
Anyway, after watching both A Room With A View and Enchanted April, I can't get some of the most unexpected lines out of my head.
I love when Eleanor Lavish, talking about Lucy to Charlotte in Italy, says: "And why should she not be transfigured? It happened to the Goths!"
And in Enchanted April, I love during the interview with Mrs. Fisher, Lottie starts rambling about seeing Keats, and Mrs. Fisher says. "I hope you're not in the habit of seeing dead people, however distinguished. It's not in the best of taste."
I howl whenever I even think of those great scenes.
-Arnessa.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Joan, too on October 02, 1996 at 02:39:44:
FWIW, I just noticed that this ought to be message # 1813 - the year in which Jane Austen's "Pride and Prejudice" was published. ;-)
Joan, too
Posted by kathleen on October 02, 1996 at 05:28:15:
:
: Baseball?? Who cares about baseball?
: Go Green Bay!
: The Pack is back!!
: This is the year of the cheese!!!
: Ann (a proud cheese-head)
___________________
Football indeed -- but my Cornhuskers have slipped in the
college rankings.
kathleen (a Nebraskan currently located in western Maryland)
Follow Ups:
Posted by Anne on October 02, 1996 at 07:31:55:
___________________
I too thought Lizzy the prettier one but Jane had that delicate
beauty that was more popular during the time. As many have said
here, Lizzy's spirit adds another element to her beauty that
was not as respected in that time as it is today.
One strong impression that I came away with from P&P2 was
that, which Jane's large eyes and Bingley's large eyes, they
are going to have children who look like deer caught in
headlights.
Anne
Posted by Linda on October 02, 1996 at 08:16:22:
: Of course, I will rarely admit to any bad casting in this production. It seems all nearly perfect to me.
: Amy
I agree that the casting was generally excellent. But, I think that they failed with Mrs. Bennet. In this production, she seemed snide and nasty frequently, rather than just a silly woman of weak understanding.
___________________
Follow Ups:
Posted by Mary on October 02, 1996 at 08:54:55:
: : Of course, I will rarely admit to any bad casting in this production. It seems all nearly perfect to me.
: : Amy
: I agree that the casting was generally excellent. But, I think that they failed with Mrs. Bennet. In this production, she seemed snide and nasty frequently, rather than just a silly woman of weak understanding.
: ___________________
___________________
I have to disagree with Linda's remark that Mrs. Bennet seems
poorly cast. I think she captures completely the ridiculousness
that Jane Austen so frequently portrayed in her novels. And
I do think that Mrs. Bennet is nasty on occasion. In the novel,
she's always talking about how the Lucases are ready to turn
them out into the road as soon as Mr. Bennet dies. In the
scene where Mr. Bingley arrives at Longbourne before Jane is
dressed and Jane says that Kitty is ready to go downstairs,
Mrs. Bennet says, "Oh, hang, Kitty! What has she to do with it?"
Not the kindest thing to say about your own child. I think
many instances from the novel could be found to show snideness
on her part too. IMHO :)
Follow Ups:
Posted by Linda on October 02, 1996 at 09:02:09:
: Of course, I will rarely admit to any bad casting in this production. It seems all nearly perfect to me.
: Amy
I agree that the casting was generally excellent. But, I think that they failed with Mrs. Bennet. In this production, she seemed snide and nasty frequently, rather than just a silly woman of weak understanding.
___________________
Posted by Mich on October 02, 1996 at 10:35:12:
: : : You Are GOOD!!! I havent had goose bumps like this since I first watched P&P.
: : : I like your version exceedingly.
: :
: : ___________________
: : You are very kind. I didn't intend to go on at such length when I started the post, but sometimes I am run away by my thoughts. Luckily, I have this forum as an outlet. If anyone else witnessed my obsession, they might be fitting me for a straight-jacked now.
: : I just kept imagining how funny it would be to have Darcy forced to live for a while under the same roof with the woman he had married, the woman he had been expected to marry, and the woman who had wanted to marry him! Hah!!! Wasn't there a questionnaire for Austen fans posted a few weeks ago asking who was another Austen hero in a similar situation? Was it Edward Ferrars who was in the same room with the woman he was going to marry, the woman he wanted to marry, and the woman he was expected to marry? Anyway, perhaps I've been too cruel, forcing the Darcys to face such trauma so early in their marriage, maybe Anne de Bourgh should move in right away.
: : -Arnessa.
:
: ___________________
: Ooops, meant to say, maybe Anne de Bourgh should NOT move in right away.
___________________
Since the wedding scene I've always thought it would be interesting if Miss Bingley Married Colonel. Fitzwilliam.
To be part of the family, poor Darcy & Elizabeth.
Follow Ups:
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