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Posted by Anna-Karin Schander on October 01, 1996 at 07:08:17:
: : : (a new?) Steve said:
: : : : Perhaps Darcy was also trying to conquer his "abominable pride"?
: : : : If he was trying to conquer his love for Elizabeth he certainly
: : : : did not do too well, since it only took less than a half hour in her
: : : : presence to put him back where he started (more or less). ___________________
: : :
: : : Oh dear. If he wasn't suffering for love I will be sorry to see it proved.
: : : Well, never mind. Everybody gets her own interpretation, right? I shall endeavor to think of it as I have before.
: : : Or.....I might be swayed to combine the two ideas, maybe. Darcy struggled to make himself the kind of person Lizzy (or another like her) could love.
: : : Amy
: : ___________________
: : I tend to agree more with Steve. I think that he was trying to conquer his pride. He was trying to "fix" his character so that Lizzy might one day be able to tolerate him if not to love him.
: : Darcy couldn't bear the thought of living without Lizzy because his love was so strong. Much like Lizzy, I think that it bothered him to have her "alive in the world and thinking ill" of him. He decided that if he ever saw her again, he would have to present himslef in such a way that his aquaintance would be important to her if nothing else than as just a friend.
: : Stefanie
: Hmmm. Since this scene does not occur in the book and Darcy has taken umbrage at her prejudicial opinions, it is unlikely that Davies is doing more than, as Raphael so eloquently puts it, further "reliefing" Darcy to us. I feel, IMHO, that it allows us, the modern viewer, to accept his rekindled passion for Elizabeth when she stumbles happily back into his life. I think his letter explained his position so clearly that his own integrity, that is pride, remained unreproachable, his reasons clearly defined, his need to befriend Lizzie unnecessary. So, I will say that it is a transition that "keeps love alive" for us. Finally, I think more explanation would be desired if after such a heated interchange, Darcy became smitten for no apparant reason in late 20th century eyes. I know in the book it's different, but I am considering the average viewer, who may not be a fan of Austen or the fin de siecle of the 18th century. I am sure I am _not_ an expert, but I think passion is the ruling emotion of that scene, not self examination. Although, Darcy is a char. in transition, so, I am sure a little of that is happening as well.
: I would like to add that Darcy seems like the kind of person who, if he _was_ interested in pursuing any further friendship, he'd just go ahead and do it. So pride governs many of his actions. Later in the book Lizzie is surprised by the "contrast" to "his last address at Rosings Park." He was "surprised" by the"connection" with the Gardiners, which I think softened his resolve even more so and warmed his proud heart to Our Dear Lizzie. So, in the end, Darcy's pride seems to remain justified, even Lizzie herself admits this ("he has no improper pride").
I think the fencing scene shows mostly how frustrated he is over
the fact that he can not put Lizzy out of his mind.But I also think
that he would not have changed his behaviour so much if he had not
at leastsomewere had a hope of seing her again. As he later tells
her when he wrote the letter he was angry and tried to justify himself
to her but he also discloses very personal information which shows us
how much he trusts her even if he is angry he can not bear the thought
of that she is thinking ill of him he even refers her to colonel Fizwilliam
to make sure she shall know the truth about the affair.He is angry in the
begginning of the letter at the end he writes something like this.
-I will only add,God bless you.It is a pity they do not but that in the
TV version. It makes it obvious that he still loves her even if he is angry.
When they met again he does everything to please her and make it
clear that he has changed.It also seems in the book that he has
about her to Georgiana.(he says that georgiana wishes to be aquaitenced with
Lizzy so i think he must have spoken about her to Georgiana).
It is possible that he maybe planned to get bingley back to netherfield
in the austumn (he knowed from Lizzy that Jane loved Bingley he had not thought so before
that was the ultimate reason that he tried to separarate Bingley from her
he did not want his friend to marry into a family of low connection mad behaviour
and to a girl who was nice but did not really love him).
I think he maybe was going to make up for his wrong doing at least
to make Lizzy not hating him anymore and make up for the damage he
had caused it is very likely according to his upright caracter to do so.
Even if he maybe had given up hope that Lizzy should love him.
Most probable is perhaps that all those intesions were mixed.
Sometimes he maybe hoped and sometimes despaired.but the fact
that he apparently has mentioned Lizzy to Georgiana suggest that
at some level at least he had not entirely put out Lizzy.
One can wonder if he had talked to georgiana after the proposal
or before.baube both?
Posted by Linda on October 01, 1996 at 07:55:14:
: : Yes, I think we all have come to this point! I have been
: : trying to buy the Persuasion video with Amanda Root; I called one of the
: : numbers someone listed for the BBC and they did not have it. I have a Signals
: : catalog, but the Persuasion listed does not look like that version.
: : Has anyone else had any luck?
: : And when will S&S be available .... for less than $99?
: : Thanks
: : Bea-
: New Critics' Choice Video catalog came today -- Persuasion
: with Amanda Root is now $19.95. Give me your eMail address
: and I'll send you the particulars.
Could you please post it here. I really want it, too, but the lowest price I've seen is $79. I'll bet there many others of us have been looking for it as well. Thanks.
Posted by Donna on October 01, 1996 at 08:31:45:
: : So if Mr. Collins leaves a son, who is still alive when both Mr. Collins and Mr. Bennet have died, this son will inherit regardless of any Bennet daughter descendants.
: Then Mr. Collins should have no sons, but only 5 daughters, thus routing things back to Mr. Bennet's 5 daugters' descendants, right? Would that not be the ultimate in irony? ;-)
: Joan, too
Could Mr. Bennett change the entailment and do what he would like even if their was a grandson.
Posted by Amy on October 01, 1996 at 08:50:51:
Okay, let's say he has all daughters. Throw in a complication. Have Charlotte die and let Mr Collins marry Mary, which everybody always thinks should have happened anyway. Then he dies and everybody scrambles for the estate in court, the Lucuses hiring Mr Phillips on behalf of their grandchildren, (or would a barrister have to handle such a case?) to go out for all they can get; Mary prissing around with platitudes about it all; and Darcy and Lizzy looking on in amusement since their children care nothing for such trifles as Longborne.
Posted by Amy on October 01, 1996 at 09:10:04:
I just remembered another pretty good source about entail. There is a 10-page appendix about it in my Penguin edition of George Eliot's Felix Holt: The Radical. Like Dickens, she liked to send people away and have their kids pop up coincidentally.
Posted by eva on October 01, 1996 at 09:25:03:
: I will be taking the books and videos on vacation with me for relaxation.
: I did draw the line however at buying a laptop so that I could log on
: to this site while away from home -- I have a modicum of sense left!!!
: However, I will probably have to spend my entire first day back
: catching up.
>>>>>>have loads of fun on your vacation... but boy, this addiction thing can cost a pretty penny. i wonder if any of us has resorted to criminal activity to feed this Austenmania, firth-oholism or whatever ;-) i confessed i have pirated P&P2 from my public library but do not yet plan to rob old ladies to finance a trip to Bath or Derbyshire... -eva
Posted by eva on October 01, 1996 at 09:37:25:
: Being a fairly recent member of this support group, I was just
: wondering where everyone is. I have seen Sweden, Israel, New
: Zealand, Australia, Canada and I think Belgium.
: I'm in Texas (near Dallas)
i was born in Vietnam but have lived most of my life in Columbus, OH (go OSU Buckeyes! :-> ). i currently go to grad school in Dayton, OH.
Posted by Ann on October 01, 1996 at 09:38:01:
Austen did say that Kitty, who stayed often with her sisters
and was much improved, married a clergyman near Pemberley.
She also said that Mary could do no better than Mr. Phillips'
clerk, thus following in her aunts footsteps. (Mrs. Phillips
married her father's [Mr. Gardiner Sr.'s] clerk.)
Posted by Ann2 on October 01, 1996 at 09:42:06:
: I'm new here. But I have a question...What does Darcy mean after
: he is fencing when he says "I shall conquer this...I shall."? I
: like this scene but am puzzled by it's meaning. (This happens in
: the fifth episode, after Lizzy and the Gardiners are seen on
: their way to Derbyshire.)
I remember thinking after first seeing this scene, apart from a lot of things that I need not mention to people belonging to this sphere, that Darcy would be full of that special energy which comes from physical efforts in moderate form.(I think many of you must know what I mean.) You feel as if you were able to achieve almost anything...maybe even the fullfillment of your heartīs most eager desire?! But then, unlike Charlotte Lucas I am romantic. I always was_.
There is some talk of this kind of endorfine kick in The making of P&P .They comment on the way Lizzie is full of it after her muddy walk and "The guys sence it.."
Wonder if I did the right thing now, Amy, putting my thoughts between
Posted by eva on October 01, 1996 at 09:47:11:
: themes of gender inequity that did not seem to be developed or resolved so that part of me felt warm-fuzzy about the fairy-tale-like ending while at the same time 'hanging' too... any thoughts about this anyone?
: : : -eva :-)
: : Yes, I agree, I saw it on video after hearing everyone rave about it for years, but then the characters seemed to let me down at the end, I think the cinematography was better than the story, or rather the panoramic quality to the location seemed to have more integrity than they did.
: : Johanna
: Isn't odd and too bad? Same thing happened to me. People had been recommending the movie to me for years, thinking it would fit right in with my passion for Brideshead, Razor's Edge, Month in the Country. -- all post Great War films. I felt let down too. And I dont' know why either. Do you suppose we wanted Rose to stray? Would we rather see Nettie go off on her own than reconcile? I guess I hungered for a less Pollyanna ending. I love the period, though. What about that Nightingale Club? Did it remind you at all of this place?
gee, it doesn't seem too many people are leaping into his movie discussion... looks like we have a sort of 'Nightingale Club' going here too ;-) i think Enchanted April is one of those movies that i enjoy watching but wouldn't really want to re-watch because i doubt subtle themes would emerge and further elucidate my first impressions, especially because so many above-mentioned themes did not unfold as semi-anticipated. there is not that Lizzy-spiritedness that transcends across the century to make us 90s women rally. instead, the marital/relationships in EA are resolved in a quiet manner appropriate and realistic for that time period, but probably NOT what we contemporary feminist-types would consider satisfactory.
Posted by Ann2 on October 01, 1996 at 10:07:12:
: : Lastly when lizzie asked him if he hated her after her refusal Darcy said ""Hate you! I was angry, perhaps, at first, but my anger soon began to take a proper direction."
: : Mich
: I had always read the line "but my anger soon began to take
: a proper direction." to be referring to his directing his
: anger more towards Wickham, but now I'm not sure. Do you
: think he meant that, or did he mean that he channeled his
: anger into correcting his ungentlemanly behavior? Perhaps
: being angry at himself for his arrogant, concieted and
: selfish character?
I have been thinking exactly like you Ann, but now i must admire your clever
thoughts. I consider it most likely that you are right.
Posted by Brigid on October 01, 1996 at 12:47:21:
: : I think I saw somewhere that Jennifer Ehle is making a film about a couple of women in a prison camp during WW2. Filmed in Australia ?
: : Ann2
: Yes, and in fact I happen to have some first-hand knowledge about the story on which that movie is based (but not anyone's role in it). The plot is fact based (but not documentary) and portrays what happened to over 600 Dutch, British and Australian women who were imprisoned in a series of Japanese prison camps on Sumatra during WWII. In order to stay sane, what has since been called a "vocal orchestra" was formed. Two of the women wrote out classical orchestral music from memory and arranged it for four-part women's voices - no words; just singing the notes on neutral syllables.
That is really amazing and inspiring.
Posted by Brigid on October 01, 1996 at 13:21:54:
: : Mich:
: : In some scenes Jane does not seems to get the impact of what the scandle will do to her and her sisters. At least not as well as Lizzie does.
: : I think this is an example of her Innocence & hope of a favorable outcome.
: Yes - she doesn't look for the negative - almost seems to have a blind spot in that regard. It had not occurred to her until Lizzie mentioned it to her that Lydia's scandal could affect the reputations of her sisters.
: Joan, too
I like the contrast between Jane and Lizzie. It seems that Lizzie's two closest confidents are both sensible but Jane colors it with rose colored glasses and Charlotte is quite a pragmatist.
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