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Posted by Amy on September 30, 1996 at 12:07:37:
(a new?) Steve said:
: Perhaps Darcy was also trying to conquer his "abominable pride"?
: If he was trying to conquer his love for Elizabeth he certainly
: did not do too well, since it only took less than a half hour in her
: presence to put him back where he started (more or less). ___________________
Oh dear. If he wasn't suffering for love I will be sorry to see it proved.
Well, never mind. Everybody gets her own interpretation, right? I shall endeavor to think of it as I have before.
Or.....I might be swayed to combine the two ideas, maybe. Darcy struggled to make himself the kind of person Lizzy (or another like her) could love.
Amy
Follow Ups:
Posted by Stefanie on September 30, 1996 at 12:27:42:
: (a new?) Steve said:
: : Perhaps Darcy was also trying to conquer his "abominable pride"?
: : If he was trying to conquer his love for Elizabeth he certainly
: : did not do too well, since it only took less than a half hour in her
: : presence to put him back where he started (more or less). ___________________
:
: Oh dear. If he wasn't suffering for love I will be sorry to see it proved.
: Well, never mind. Everybody gets her own interpretation, right? I shall endeavor to think of it as I have before.
: Or.....I might be swayed to combine the two ideas, maybe. Darcy struggled to make himself the kind of person Lizzy (or another like her) could love.
: Amy
___________________
I tend to agree more with Steve. I think that he was trying to conquer his pride. He was trying to "fix" his character so that Lizzy might one day be able to tolerate him if not to love him.
Darcy couldn't bear the thought of living without Lizzy because his love was so strong. Much like Lizzy, I think that it bothered him to have her "alive in the world and thinking ill" of him. He decided that if he ever saw her again, he would have to present himslef in such a way that his aquaintance would be important to her if nothing else than as just a friend.
Stefanie
Follow Ups:
Posted by Helping Hand on September 30, 1996 at 12:39:49:
:
: : On the Firth FAQ list, they claim that this video is available through BBC Educational Programs for $199.
: : The US phone number is (212) 373-4137 for those interested.
: Do you get to have dinner with the cast for that price? Seems a bit excessive, no?
: -Arnessa.
___________________
I agree, but that's what the Firth FAQ list listed it as. Maybe they had a typo.
Posted by Janine on September 30, 1996 at 13:12:59:
Maybe I'm messing up your rules of etiquette, but still,
a quick word of thanks to you all for responding so wonderfully
promptly.
Speak to you soon after release of The English Patient......
(I hear that's set for Nov 15 in the US - lucky you!!!)
Janine
(a Fiennes Fan) (but.. Firth is kind of yummy too)
Follow Ups:
Posted by Katherine on September 30, 1996 at 13:24:51:
: I am glad I am not alone....: ]
: Thanks for the info.
: Johanna
: Sign of addiction: The P&P2 BB has been changed to your "home" site in your browser preferences. <blush>
..I thought I was the only one...
Katherine
Posted by Linda on September 30, 1996 at 13:34:16:
: Being a fairly recent member of this support group, I was just
: wondering where everyone is. I have seen Sweden, Israel, New
: Zealand, Australia, Canada and I think Belgium.
: I'm in Texas (near Dallas)
: Anne
Nashville, Tennessee for the first 22 years; Poughkeepsie, New York (60 miles north of New York City) since 1966.
Posted by Raphael on September 30, 1996 at 13:43:32:
I live in Piedmont (suburb of Oakland) in CA, the state
where most of my life has been spent (in various Northern
California towns), with the sole exception of a nine-month
stint in Camden, Maine.
Cordially,
Raphael
Posted by Maureen on September 30, 1996 at 13:54:39:
: Being a fairly recent member of this support group, I was just
: wondering where everyone is. I have seen Sweden, Israel, New
: Zealand, Australia, Canada and I think Belgium.
: I'm in Texas (near Dallas)
: Anne
I am at college right now, in the little known town of Meadville Pa, USA - about 1 1/2 hours from Pittsburgh Pa.
Posted by Raphael on September 30, 1996 at 13:58:19:
: I know I´m stretching it all, but it is such fun.Stop reading if you are displeased or break it all up if you have got a clear analytical mind!
___________________
It shames me to admit that I had not comprehended the impact of
these subtle visual representations -- but on retrospection, your
comments make perfect sense. They are not silly at all, not for
whether or not they are obvious, but for how contemporary film
theory teaches us to approach visual symbology:
Screenwriters are often urged to insert in their screenplays visual
symbology, a subtles visual representation of -- often -- the arc of
the protagonist, something the director can use effectively to give a
significant "look" to the film. It is usually an inanimate object or
piece of nature which recurs throughout the film -- a symbol -- which
ties the piece together. In Witness, for example, the symbol was wheat,
and it appeared in many forms throughout the movie.
And now that you bring it to light (no pun intended), we see that the
candles in P&P2 perform the same object. What a wonderful common object
to be siezed upon to symbolically represent the turbulence of their
love! Marvelous!
I'm going to rent P&P2 again this week and carefully look for what you
point out. Thanks for giving me a fresh excuse (as if I needed one)!
Cordially,
Raphael
Posted by Maureen on September 30, 1996 at 14:03:24:
Since we are all so much "obsessed" with this miniseries and we even know the ins and outs, I suggest that we either combine our efforts to write a screenplay for a sequel to the miniseries, or ask someone else to do it. What do you think??? I think it wiould be a great idea!!!!!
Any feedback would be appreciated! Thanx!!
Posted by Maureen on September 30, 1996 at 14:04:41:
Since we are all so much "obsessed" with this miniseries and we even know the ins and outs, I suggest that we either combine our efforts to write a screenplay for a sequel to the miniseries, or ask someone else to do it. What do you think??? I think it wiould be a great idea!!!!!
Any feedback would be appreciated! Thanx!!
Follow Ups:
Posted by Johanna on September 30, 1996 at 14:21:32:
: : (a new?) Steve said:
: : : Perhaps Darcy was also trying to conquer his "abominable pride"?
: : : If he was trying to conquer his love for Elizabeth he certainly
: : : did not do too well, since it only took less than a half hour in her
: : : presence to put him back where he started (more or less). ___________________
: :
: : Oh dear. If he wasn't suffering for love I will be sorry to see it proved.
: : Well, never mind. Everybody gets her own interpretation, right? I shall endeavor to think of it as I have before.
: : Or.....I might be swayed to combine the two ideas, maybe. Darcy struggled to make himself the kind of person Lizzy (or another like her) could love.
: : Amy
:
: ___________________
: I tend to agree more with Steve. I think that he was trying to conquer his pride. He was trying to "fix" his character so that Lizzy might one day be able to tolerate him if not to love him.
: Darcy couldn't bear the thought of living without Lizzy because his love was so strong. Much like Lizzy, I think that it bothered him to have her "alive in the world and thinking ill" of him. He decided that if he ever saw her again, he would have to present himslef in such a way that his aquaintance would be important to her if nothing else than as just a friend.
: Stefanie
___________________
Hmmm. Since this scene does not occur in the book and Darcy has taken umbrage at her prejudicial opinions, it is unlikely that Davies is doing more than, as Raphael so eloquently puts it, further "reliefing" Darcy to us. I feel, IMHO, that it allows us, the modern viewer, to accept his rekindled passion for Elizabeth when she stumbles happily back into his life. I think his letter explained his position so clearly that his own integrity, that is pride, remained unreproachable, his reasons clearly defined, his need to befriend Lizzie unnecessary. So, I will say that it is a transition that "keeps love alive" for us. Finally, I think more explanation would be desired if after such a heated interchange, Darcy became smitten for no apparant reason in late 20th century eyes. I know in the book it's different, but I am considering the average viewer, who may not be a fan of Austen or the fin de siecle of the 18th century. I am sure I am _not_ an expert, but I think passion is the ruling emotion of that scene, not self examination. Although, Darcy is a char. in transition, so, I am sure a little of that is happening as well.
I would like to add that Darcy seems like the kind of person who, if he _was_ interested in pursuing any further friendship, he'd just go ahead and do it. So pride governs many of his actions. Later in the book Lizzie is surprised by the "contrast" to "his last address at Rosings Park." He was "surprised" by the"connection" with the Gardiners, which I think softened his resolve even more so and warmed his proud heart to Our Dear Lizzie. So, in the end, Darcy's pride seems to remain justified, even Lizzie herself admits this ("he has no improper pride").
Johanna
Posted by Johanna on September 30, 1996 at 14:35:07:
Brava! Brava!
I have not looked at the series like that yet, but I have, for example seen "Citizen Kane" often enough to adore that kind of symbolism. Addtionally, Cinema is loaded with that kind of imagery, rent a simple film like Zuckerbaby and watch the way the cinematographer gets otherworldly with lights, filters and shots, all tell a story. Or try "Wings of Desire" a Wender's movie, loaded with symbolism. A last suggestion: Terrence Davies "The Long Day Closes," the use of light and shadow is a treat, coupled with a superb story and a nice soundtrack, it fills you with wonder at the imagination of this director.
But I digress
Johanna
Posted by dana on September 30, 1996 at 14:38:20:
: I'm new here. But I have a question...What does Darcy mean after
: he is fencing when he says "I shall conquer this...I shall."? I
: like this scene but am puzzled by it's meaning. (This happens in
: the fifth episode, after Lizzy and the Gardiners are seen on
: their way to Derbyshire.)
___________________
Hi, I'm new here too, but I think I have an answer to your question. Darcy seemply means he will get over his grief after Lizzy refuses him "so abominably".
Posted by Ann on September 30, 1996 at 14:48:44:
: Darcy struggled to make himself the kind of person Lizzy (or another like her) could love.
: Amy
But Amy, for Darcy there could never be anyone like Lizzy!
Ann
Posted by kathleen on September 30, 1996 at 14:57:03:
: We all remember the candle in Darcy´s chamber, while he writes his letter, burning almost down and when he is finished he puts it out brutally whit his fingers. As if he was resoved to choke every flame in his heart as well..
: (You must allow me to tell you how *ardently* I love you...)
How wonderful. I did not see these as symbols, but I shall look for them on my next viewing. By the way, if you saw Colin Firth in Valmont, then you know
that he does the bare-fingered candle extinction in that movie, too. Different context: Valmont is in the process of seducing the teenage virgin.
k.
Posted by Donna on September 30, 1996 at 15:04:35:
: I'm new here. But I have a question...What does Darcy mean after
: he is fencing when he says "I shall conquer this...I shall."? I
: like this scene but am puzzled by it's meaning. (This happens in
: the fifth episode, after Lizzy and the Gardiners are seen on
: their way to Derbyshire.)
___________________
I think it meant trying to get over his suffering for Lizzie, trying to
fight those feelings of rejection, on the down side, or on the upside, he
would not give up hope because he still doesn't know how she feels
after she read his letter. The only was he would know if he sees her again. Lizzie
would not post a letter to him unless the were engaged.
So maybe he wanted to some
how see her again, not knowing that he would see her when he did. When he does
see her again he wanted her to know that her reproofs would be attended. He was
so humbled when he saw her at Pemberly because he was still is in love with her. He was
always a nice guy but Lizzie and his pride made him defensive. He was always trying to
defend himself to her. Yes it does take a more than a half hour to fall out of love. He
had already conguered his pride when he asked her to marry him. He should of never explained
his pride to Elizabeth because she thinks pride is a failing indeed.
Donna,
Posted by Lorraine on September 30, 1996 at 15:05:08:
: Being a fairly recent member of this support group, I was just
: wondering where everyone is. I have seen Sweden, Israel, New
: Zealand, Australia, Canada and I think Belgium.
: I'm in Texas (near Dallas)
: Anne
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada - the most beautiful and
temperate city in the Dominion - for all of my two and forty
years!
Lorraine
Posted by kathleen on September 30, 1996 at 15:07:09:
: a quick word of thanks to you all for responding so wonderfully
: promptly.
: Speak to you soon after release of The English Patient......
: Janine
: (a Fiennes Fan) (but.. Firth is kind of yummy too)
Do you know if there is a net site for Fiennes Fans?
Posted by Ann on September 30, 1996 at 15:16:51:
: It is a truth universally acknowledged that a single fan in possession of a good videotape must be in want of a life!
: -Arnessa.
Arnessa, that's a great line!!! And one which hits far too close to home.
Ann
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