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Posted by Johanna on September 28, 1996 at 16:43:48:
: :
: : One more, then I really have to get away from this.
: : Ever find yourself wishing your home had a name? So that you could say things like, "Then we shall return to Grandinglington," instead of "Then, we'll go home."
: : Amy
:
: True, true.
: Katherine
Hee, hee, I thought I was the only one! I live in a building called The Fairfax and I use it with alarming frequency. I like the way the British name the homes rather than number them (or at least the few I lived in - it was dreamy)
Johanna
Posted by Raphael on September 28, 1996 at 16:43:56:
:
: : Cheryl:
: : This will open up all manner of "compare and contrast" dialogues; how well did the film portray this moment, what was left out of the movie that should not have been, in what ways are the novel superior to the film (I know this borders on the blasphemous, but it is nonetheless true),
: ... and in what ways the film might be superior to the novel (I know this is definitely blasphemous, but may nonetheless, in rare instances, be true) ;-)
: Joan, too
Most assuredly. I call attention to the late scene between Mr.
Bennett and his two eldest daughters, when under the weeping willow
he gives Lizzy the letter from her uncle to read re: Mr. Wickham.
Davies added some delightful character nuances which benefitted the
flow of the scene most endearingly.
Besides, in the hands of a delightful actor, individuals grow from
beloved to vitally living and breathing before us. For all that I loved
Lizzy in the book, Elizabeth Ehle's beauty and rich nuance go a great
way toward turning her into something almost unbelievably perfect.
Cordially,
Raphael
Follow Ups:
Posted by Raphael on September 28, 1996 at 16:48:29:
: This sounds good to me as well. Although, I did like the idea
: of reading Northanger Abbey together, as I must admit, I am
: struggling with this one. After P&P, S&S and Persuasion, it
: is a little difficult to get through. Anyone else find that?
: Anyone else have a different perspective?
: Bea
Awkward is the word I would use. I'm reading it right now
myself. But I do think -- as with all Austen's books -- it
has a hearty share of excellent qualities.
I happen to like the aspect of Miss Morland's love of books.
It seems like a trivial thing, really, but I think it's very
amusing.
Austen's style is markedly different from her other works. Her
later efforts are much improved, would you agree?
Cordially, &tc,
Raphael
Posted by Johanna on September 28, 1996 at 17:00:51:
:
: Most assuredly. I call attention to the late scene between Mr.
: Bennett and his two eldest daughters, when under the weeping willow
: he gives Lizzy the letter from her uncle to read re: Mr. Wickham.
: Davies added some delightful character nuances which benefitted the
: flow of the scene most endearingly.
: Besides, in the hands of a delightful actor, individuals grow from
: beloved to vitally living and breathing before us. For all that I loved
: Lizzy in the book, Elizabeth Ehle's beauty and rich nuance go a great
: way toward turning her into something almost unbelievably perfect.
: Cordially,
: Raphael
I must agree, Raphael, while Lizzie came to life, this happened even more so for Jane in my estimation. Seeing Susannah Harker render her angelic demeaner with such perfection increased my enjoyment of the adaptation, for Jane is a girl who does not necessarily "translate" well into the 90's and yet she never appeared smarmy or insincere in here manner. Hoorah!
Johanna
Follow Ups:
Posted by Cheryl on September 28, 1996 at 17:00:53:
Amy and I feel that there is enough of a concensus to commit to a simultaneous reading and viewing of P&P and P&P2. Below is the schedule. The date reflects when discussion will begin. My copy of P&P is divided into three volumes (I know that some of the more recently published editions do not do so.) I have provided part of the opening sentence for each chapter so as to not cause too much confusion. I also describe the closing scene of each tape for those who are viewing versions taped from television. This will also move the viewing and discussion of P&P1 to November 26.
Cheryl
October 6
Tape One: ends with Lizzy and Jane leaving Netherfield after Jane's illness.
Vol. I
Chapters 1: "It is a truth universally acknowledged..." through
12: "In consequence of an agreement between the sisters..."
October 13
Tape Two: ends with Mr. Collins leaving Longbourne with Charlotte after being refused by Lizzy.
Vol. I
Chapters 13: "'I hope, my dear,' said Mr. Bennet to his wife..." through
20: "Mr. Collins was not left long to the silent contemplation..."
October 20
Tape Three: ends with Mr. Darcy leaving Lizzy after his proposal is refused.
Vol. I
Chapter 21: "The discussion of Mr. Collins's offer..." through
Vol. II
Chapter 11: "When they were gone, Elizabeth..."
October 27
Tape Four: ends with Lizzy and the Gardiners leaving Pemberly after the unexpected meeting with Mr. Darcy.
Vol. II
Chapter 12: "Elizabeth awoke the next morning..." through
Vol. III
Chapter 1: "Elizabeth, as they drove along watched for the first appearance of Pemberly Woods..."
November 3
Tape Five: ends with Lizzy and Jane talking in their bedroom after Mr. Bennett has received Mr. Gardiners letter telling of Lydia and Wickham's impending marriage.
Vol. III
Chapter 2: "Elizabeth has settled it that Mr. Darcy should bring his sister to visit her..." through
Chapter 7: "Two days after Mr. Bennet's return..."
November 19
Tape Six: ends with "THE KISS"
Vol. III
Chapter 8: "Mr. Bennet had very often wished..."
Chapter 19: "Happy for all her maternal feelings..."
Follow Ups:
Posted by Anna-Karin Schander on September 28, 1996 at 17:07:44:
: : : I learned only today that the Firthlisters have been trashing us, or me or this board or something. I don't read the digests everyday and missed the damning posts. Anna-Karin or Laura, pray write and tell the nature of this slander for I am quite astonished to hear of it.
: : : Are we too uneducated in Firthlore? Too prissy? I don't understand. I have always enjoyed reading the posts there and have delighted in the difference from this place in style, tone, character. Hurts my feelings a little. Please tell so I won't imagine worse.
: : : Amy
: : :
: : Really? but why? Too bad if it is true.
: : I read them from time to time and enjoy it too.
: : I thought we were all on the same boat, that is, addict to P&P, and adore Firth.
: : However, I think we may be a bit open minded, we are allowed to adore others, such as Hinds, Rupert, Sewell...:)
: What is this?
: Would anyone be so kind as to give me the adress to the firthlist? Is it a group like this ore is it
: some e-mail subscription?
: I have read alot of Firth facts, Faqs, fantasies and so forth but have I missed their way of exchanging opinions?
: Ann2
I am a proud swedish member of the firthlist and the only so far.So
Obs. in swedish: Sa jag skulle valdigt garna se att vi blev fler från sverige an bara
lilla jag det finns 2 fran finland och 1 fran Norge den har helgen ligger
listan nere efter som listdrotningen ar borta over helgen men den kommer
igang igen pa mandag min e-mail adress ar anna-karin.schander@mailbox.swipnet.se.
: Exuse me for writing something in swedish here but
it is my only way to reach Ann2
Anna-Karin Schander
Posted by Johanna on September 28, 1996 at 17:09:07:
: Amy and I feel that there is enough of a concensus to commit to a simultaneous reading and viewing of P&P and P&P2. Below is the schedule. The date reflects when discussion will begin. My copy of P&P is divided into three volumes (I know that some of the more recently published editions do not do so.) I have provided part of the opening sentence for each chapter so as to not cause too much confusion. I also describe the closing scene of each tape for those who are viewing versions taped from television. This will also move the viewing and discussion of P&P1 to November 26.
: Cheryl
This is great, can you make it into a link at the top of the page? Or something akin to the box with the movie information? Can I help somehow? I do work freelance so I may not be in the closest sync with you all, however, I have had P&P as a bedside read for several years now (version with a BLONDE Victorian Darcy as per my BIO post, and to refer to "Darcy=Firth" post by Ann, it looks terrible, but I suppose it's not impossible, just terrible! Darcy=Firth and only Firth! - oops sorry! ;)
Johanna
:
: October 6
: Tape One: ends with Lizzy and Jane leaving Netherfield after Jane's illness.
: Vol. I
: Chapters 1: "It is a truth universally acknowledged..." through
: 12: "In consequence of an agreement between the sisters..."
: October 13
: Tape Two: ends with Mr. Collins leaving Longbourne with Charlotte after being refused by Lizzy.
: Vol. I
: Chapters 13: "'I hope, my dear,' said Mr. Bennet to his wife..." through
: 20: "Mr. Collins was not left long to the silent contemplation..."
: October 20
: Tape Three: ends with Mr. Darcy leaving Lizzy after his proposal is refused.
: Vol. I
: Chapter 21: "The discussion of Mr. Collins's offer..." through
: Vol. II
: Chapter 11: "When they were gone, Elizabeth..."
: October 27
: Tape Four: ends with Lizzy and the Gardiners leaving Pemberly after the unexpected meeting with Mr. Darcy.
: Vol. II
: Chapter 12: "Elizabeth awoke the next morning..." through
: Vol. III
: Chapter 1: "Elizabeth, as they drove along watched for the first appearance of Pemberly Woods..."
: November 3
: Tape Five: ends with Lizzy and Jane talking in their bedroom after Mr. Bennett has received Mr. Gardiners letter telling of Lydia and Wickham's impending marriage.
: Vol. III
: Chapter 2: "Elizabeth has settled it that Mr. Darcy should bring his sister to visit her..." through
: Chapter 7: "Two days after Mr. Bennet's return..."
: November 19
: Tape Six: ends with "THE KISS"
: Vol. III
: Chapter 8: "Mr. Bennet had very often wished..."
: Chapter 19: "Happy for all her maternal feelings..."
Posted by Ann on September 28, 1996 at 17:16:01:
I watched P&P1 yesterday for the very first time. The
biggest fault is that until Lizzy accepts him, Darcy is not
the sort of man she could ever fall in love with! With Firth,
when they met again at Pemberley we could easily see that
Darcy was a changed man and very worthy of our little Lizzy.
As for her father, they made him into an almost cruel man.
The new lines they made up for him were all mean and nasty.
He may be very sarcastic and have little time for his silly
wife, but he is not a mean man. Lizzy in the novel and P&P2
has a great regard for her father (with the exception of
some of his eccentricities and his treatment of her mother).
I didn't like P&P1 at all!
It is enough to make a P&P2 addict fall ill!
Ann
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on September 28, 1996 at 17:25:38:
: Dear Friends,
: My proposal is that we read P&P and view P&P2 simultaneously, ie week one would be comprised of viewing tape one and the corresponding chapters.
: Cheryl
I see only one problem with this: as addicts, once we pop in
the tape to view the first section there is no possible way
to stop, and we will all end up watching the whole thing!
Though of course this isn't much of a problem.:)
Ann
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ramona on September 28, 1996 at 17:29:01:
:... this happened even more so for Jane in my estimation. Seeing Susannah Harker render her angelic demeaner with such perfection increased my enjoyment of the adaptation, for Jane is a girl who does not necessarily "translate" well into the 90's and yet she never appeared smarmy or insincere in here manner. Hoorah!
: Johanna
I agree. Jane is so sweet and lovely, and she is not dull. Truly good people are hard to find! And I will have to admit that after repeated viewings I grew to love everyone in this movie except for Wickam and Mrs. Young?? (that is digging deep).
I'll take this time to mention that the women portraying Miss Bingley and Mrs. Hearst did an excellent job in their portrayals.
Posted by Johanna on September 28, 1996 at 17:29:29:
Thank you Eva!!!!
I have been humming that tune for_EVER_ since I heard it and, while I knew it was from TMoF, I never bothered with the words! I have to confess a perfect "marriage" occured here too! The Pemberley scene is an even more delicate morsel now that I knowthe words!
Johanna
: English translation as sung by Lizzy in the beloved Pemberley scene:
: You who have tasted love's mystic spell
: What is this sorrow naught can dispel? (repeat 2x)
: Fair dame or maiden, none else may know
: My heart o'erladen, why is this so?
: What is this yearning, these trembling fears
: Rapturous burning, melting in tears?
: While thus I languish, wild beats my heart,
: Yet from my anguish I would not part,
: I seek a treasure Fate still denies,
: Naught else will pleasure,
: Naught else I prize...I'm ever sighing,
: I know not why, near unto dying, when none are by,
: My hear is riven night, morn and eve,
: But ah 'tis heaven, thus, thus to grieve!
: You who have tasted love's mystic spell
: What is this sorrow naught can dispel? (repeat 2x)
: Ann R. discloses:
: : : : 9) Favorite scene/sequence I actually whispered to myself "Oh thank you, yes!" when I first watched the Pemberly music night
: : : Darcy's face and the Mozart aria"Voi che sapete"( meaning Oh you who obey tender desires, tell me what is love?" In the opera
: : : sung by a young boy who has no experience but who's whole being is in a turmoil in the presence of to women who tease him and
: : : plays with him.Congenius! And when Darcy lingers to watch the carriage disappear with Lizzie into the night... and again the
: : : music and his eyes in the dark music room. Exquisite!
: : after my first couple viewings of P&P2, i was channel-surfing and perchance paused on this PBS special where opera stars were performing famous arias... needless to say, someone warbled 'voi che sapete' and a lightbulb went off in me, like it was fate. anyways, i went to my friend, the public library, and checked out 'Figaro' CDs to learn the song (even though it was sung in italian!)...then i had to check out the video of the opera to learn the context of the song... and then lastly (and perhaps pathetically? ;-> ), i found the corresponding English translation which Lizzy performs at Pemberley in the miniseries... sorry i had to unload. if anyone would like, i can dig out the English lyrics and post them...
: : -eva
Posted by Anna-karin Schander on September 28, 1996 at 17:32:57:
: : : : : < but I'm inclined to think its mostly accute shyness (because he hadn't taken the trouble
: : : : : : to practise!)>
: : : : :
: : : : : Do ya'll think Darcy was REALLY a shy person? I thought he was just copping out with a lame excuse for his snobby behavior. We don't get to see him in a variety of situations, so it is difficult to discern between shyness/extreme snobbiness. His strong personality and presence do not support the shyness route for me. Remember Col Fitzwilliam tells Lizzie how Darcy is "lively enough in other places, but gets very quiet when they come to Kent?" Maybe his aversion to his all knowing aunt and the horrible thought of his impending marriage the the beaten down Anne is the cause for this. When I think of shyness, I do not think of a man who behaves in such a forward manner in general ...
: : : : I agree totally. Darcy's not shy. But I think the confusion results from the way Colin Firth plays him. Believe me, I have absolutely no qualms whatsoever with Colin Firth's acting. But I think he did give us a different Darcy from the one in the book. It's a marvelous example of how an actor can put his own stamp on a character and make it work. In the book, we see Darcy asking Lizzy one night at Netherfield, whether she doesn't have a "great inclination to dance a reel" while Miss Bingley is playing. And also the comment about admiring their figures from his present position does not seem to me the action of a shy guy.
: : : : Darcy is reserved and perhaps insecure. He does not like people to know about his thoughts, feelings or personal business. But Darcy is not shy. He is not afraid of social interaction; he just doesn't enjoy it. But Firth plays Darcy shy. And a friend of mine says this is the real reason behind the whole Darcy craze. She thinks that if Firth had played Darcy as he's written in the book, we wouldn't like him half as much.
: : : : -Arnessa
: : : When Lizzie meets Georgiana in the book it says "Since her
: : : being at Lambton, she had heard that Miss Darcy was exceedingly
: : : proud; but the observation of a very few minutes convinced her
: : : that she was only exceedingly shy." Don't you think the same
: : : could be said of Darcy, only he has had 12 more years to deal
: : : with his shyness, and the advantages of being male and monied?
: : : And Lizzie has not just been slighted by Georgiana. Shy people usually
: : : develop mechanisms for sociallising as they get older, and
: : : are then merely called reserved.(This is me!)It also doesn't
: : : stop them having occasional boldness. There is also the house-
: : : keeper saying Darcy just doesnt rattle on as much as other young
: : : men. But its an interesting question, and CF has certainly
: : : defined Darcy in this way. Speaking of which, don't you like
: : : the way he's always fiddling with his ring? I think its a
: : : great touch.
: : About fiddling with the ring. I thought iwas the only one to notice... Just kidding but have you noticed how he lifts his right arm out when he asks if he may fetch
: : Bingley at Lambton inn? How many times does he do it in PP2? It is used in Valmont and I like it very well.
: : Ann2
: I think it might be shyness in his interactions with Lizzie, because he likes her, and therefore even if he doesn't feel shy toward people he doesn't care about, he might feel differently. It might also be because he doesn't know how to react to her, since she is so diferent form people he knows. He might act in a reserved way to hide his shyness.
: Marsha
I also think darcys reservdnes and snobbiness is partly at least from shyness
at least in social events. And also the fact in comparasion to his sister that
it was and is more accepted for a girl of 16 to be shy then for a young man of 28.
His rections at the Meryton ball is maybe also partly from shyness.
He does not like to dance with strange ladies he does not know they must be
very attractive to temt him if he does not know them. maybe this can later
be a measure on his strong attraction to Lizzy that he asks her inspite of
everything.
Anna-Karin
Posted by Johanna on September 28, 1996 at 17:36:21:
: once we pop in
: the tape to view the first section there is no possible way
: to stop, and we will all end up watching the whole thing!
: Though of course this isn't much of a problem.:)
: Ann
ROFLOL!!!
Johanna
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on September 28, 1996 at 17:52:14:
: and that other film ... oh! you know, the one where he plays a cinema owner who takes in a serial killer as a boarder.
That's Apartment Zero, a very strange film (and one I recommend).
: I think Ehle is acting circles around Firth (pun intended). But Firth outdoes her in the first proposal scene, where Ehle appears a little stiff.
Ehle is also weak in the most beloved scene: their first
meeting at Pemberley. According to Austen: "the few minutes
in which they continued togeher were some of the most
uncomfortable of her life." Ehle seemed much to calm and composed!
Ann
Posted by Ann on September 28, 1996 at 17:57:20:
: ROFLOL!!!
: Johanna
What???
Ann
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on September 28, 1996 at 18:03:59:
We are not the only ones who have found P&P2 addictive. The
following is from one of those many movie guides that come out
each year.
Pride and Prejudice (1996) *****
Positively addictive. You may find yourself watching all six
episodes of this British miniseries in one stretch. The cast and
crew capture Jane Austen's timeless wit and cutting observations
of the class system and human foibles. The costumes annd setting
are delicious and Colin Firth and Jennifer Ehle dominate this
comedy of mannerisms in which a wedding band is the ultimate goal.
--Mick Martin & Marsha Porter "Video Movie Guide 1997"
Ann
Follow Ups:
Posted by Johanna on September 28, 1996 at 18:10:58:
:
: : ROFLOL!!!
: : Johanna
: What???
: Ann
I was _rolling on the floor laughing out loud_ when you said we'd "pop in the tape" and "end up watching the whole thing!" Truer words haven't been spoken! I know we would all chalk up additional viewings to our "belts" and then have to settle back into the episode of discussion! : ]
Johanna
Posted by Johanna on September 28, 1996 at 18:18:18:
I am glad I am not alone....: ]
Thanks for the info.
Johanna
Sign of addiction: The P&P2 BB has been changed to your "home" site in your browser preferences. <blush>
As an aside: Should we contemplate an IRC night?? any IRC Bots here? I'm an IRC browser/lurker, but could do little more than "come in and chat."
food for thought.
Follow Ups:
Posted by The Mysterious H.C. on September 28, 1996 at 18:42:54:
: my anticipation is further excited by the thought, "I wonder what picture he put up?"
: Especially for this topic. I thought maybe you would delight us with a modest Hogarth engraving or something of the sort.
Sorry, I didn't have any appropriate picture handy.
I hate to tell you this, but the picture you used is blurry, and I can't really tell what's going on, except that the woman has a fine witches' hat hanging on the wall, and the whole scene is set forty years or more before Pride and Prejudice was published.
Rowlandson was the prints-person of the Regency, but there isn't that much of his on-line, as far as I can tell, (so I've added another irrelevant picture to this posting JUST TO KEEP YOU HAPPY!!!!) 
Posted by Marsha on September 28, 1996 at 19:03:59:
: I watched P&P1 yesterday for the very first time. The
: biggest fault is that until Lizzy accepts him, Darcy is not
: the sort of man she could ever fall in love with! With Firth,
: when they met again at Pemberley we could easily see that
: Darcy was a changed man and very worthy of our little Lizzy.
: As for her father, they made him into an almost cruel man.
: The new lines they made up for him were all mean and nasty.
: He may be very sarcastic and have little time for his silly
: wife, but he is not a mean man. Lizzy in the novel and P&P2
: has a great regard for her father (with the exception of
: some of his eccentricities and his treatment of her mother).
: I didn't like P&P1 at all!
: It is enough to make a P&P2 addict fall ill!
: Ann
I agree 100%!!!!!
I saw it first after I read the book and was very disagreeably surprised. They left out Darcy's "She is not hansome enough to tempt me!" and substituted a silly remark about "middle classes at play" in its place, changing all the emphasis and the fun! And they made Mr Collins a librarian! (By the way, does anybody else think that to marry a librarian would be a step down for Charlotte, since it is "a menial" position? I think they could have thought of a better job! However, It was good for one thing: it made me like P&P2 all the more, by comparison.
Follow Ups:
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