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Posted by tommye on September 28, 1996 at 08:00:48:
:
: Well, my idea seems to be a hit! I'm up for suggestions as to how we should do the readings. Amy's idea of four chapters per week seems to be a good one. Maybe we could have discussions every monday (?), which would give people a chance to read over the weekend. Please help. I'm not sure what else to suggest.
: I'll start the voting with "Northangler Abby".
: Susan
No, thanks. My least favorite.
Tommye
How about "Persuasion?"
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Posted by Amy on September 28, 1996 at 08:18:46:
>>>we are all of such a compliant nature that it will be some time before we can decide upon anything.
True, true.
>>>: My proposal is that we read P&P and view P&P2 simultaneously, ie week one would be comprised of viewing tape one and the corresponding chapters. This will open up all manner of "compare and contrast" dialogues
Sounds like a plan!
>>>: I shall be happy to post a tape to chapter breakdown (and for those of you who do not own the six tape box set, the corresponding cut off points.)
Henry's chronology may prove useful for this. See link below. (Donna is right -- what would we do without Henry?) Should the scenes and chapters not come out even, I'd suggest quoting the first line of the book that matches the scene, since many of us will not be using the same edition.
>>>: Hoping that I came across as caringly assertive and not pushy, I remain your humble servant,
Just what we needed, I think.
Amy
Link:
Posted by Tommye on September 28, 1996 at 08:22:55:
Last night as I lay upon my sick bed, I decided to get a jump on watched P&P1 again, to be ready for week-after-next's discussion (following the Enchanted April one). Having not viewed the P&P1 for over a month, and having viewed P&P2 at least 8 times in that time, I must say that I was shocked. I did not realize how very, very different the two versions are. One thing in particular--the discussions in P&P1 seem to go on forever. The music is so typical of BBC in the 70's and 80's. Charlotte is much more credible; Mrs. Bennett much more tolerable; Mr. Darcy very unappealing. I had originally like this version ok, since I did not own P&P2. Now, however, I feel that I shall have to go back and reread P&P to compare the two versions. Perhaps, this shock was due to my illness. Other observations: Caroline Bingley seemed less one-dimensional in P&P1--more warmth in this portrayal. Mr. Bingley showed honest disappointment at leaving for England (something that was left out of P&P2). OH! And Catherine deBourgh! In the piano scene with Lizzy playing--In P&P2 Catherine says "I must have my part in the conversation!" But in P&P1, she says "[my daughter-name temp. forgotten] must have her part in the conversation. This Catherine proceeds to offer her daughter's excellence over Lizzy's. At that time, I fell asleep.
Tommye
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Posted by Amy on September 28, 1996 at 08:33:26:
Hilary wondered:
>>>Is it possible to keep this thread on screen
: for a couple of weeks, because I am going away tomorrow? I
: haven't worked out how long they are kept.
I would hate to miss this thread, too, hat. It is possible but a lot of trouble and not a practical thing to start doing, I regret to conclude. What if you let me know when you return and I will send you the relevant archives to read offline.
The age of the posts are determined more by how long the main page is getting to be than anything else. The average posts per day is way up this week so you will find only 5 or 6 days worth of messages displayed.
Amy
: I didn't have a preconcieved idea of Darcy because I hadn't
: read P&P before seeing it, and that probably makes a difference
: too. Does playing shy guys mean that CF himself is, do you think?
: Going back to mannerisms, I must have missed the ring twisting
: in Valmont. I looked for it because I had wondered if it was
: Firth (rather than Darcy) mannerism. ButI did also notice the
: right arm or hand gesture, particularly in that "yes, I call it an
: easy distance" scene. And I know what you mean about the pursed
: lips! One I like, though not quite the same,is when
: Lizzie mets Darcy in the garden with her muddy petticoats,
: and he first purses his lips (in equal quantities of
: disapproval and admiration) and then gives her a very
: quizzical and cocky nod of his head.
Posted by Bea on September 28, 1996 at 08:47:34:
: Dear Friends,
: We all agree that reading an Austen novel together will be a fine thing, however, we are all of such a compliant nature that it will be some time before we can decide upon anything. Someone needs to be assertive and make a specific proposal, which I shall humbly venture to provide. If this seems agreeable to the majority, it can be implemented quickly.
: I am reluctant to begin a four chapter per week read a la Austen-L, because at 60+ chapters, it will take months to conclude. Amy suggested reading P&P in sections tied to the videos. I like this idea because to feeds directly into our primary obsession, the raison d'etre, if you will, of why we are all here.
: My proposal is that we read P&P and view P&P2 simultaneously, ie week one would be comprised of viewing tape one and the corresponding chapters. This will open up all manner of "compare and contrast" dialogues; how well did the film portray this moment, what was left out of the movie that should not have been, in what ways are the novel superior to the film (I know this borders on the blasphemous, but it is nonetheless true), etc. In this way we will be also be through in six weeks, the commitment level shall not be as demanding (no small consideration), and we can move on to another book.
: I shall be happy to post a tape to chapter breakdown (and for those of you who do not own the six tape box set, the corresponding cut off points.)
: Hoping that I came across as caringly assertive and not pushy, I remain your humble servant,
: Cheryl
This sounds good to me as well. Although, I did like the idea
of reading Northanger Abbey together, as I must admit, I am
struggling with this one. After P&P, S&S and Persuasion, it
is a little difficult to get through. Anyone else find that?
Anyone else have a different perspective?
Bea
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Posted by Amy on September 28, 1996 at 08:58:24:
Henry,
You disappoint me. I always light up when I see there is a new post from you, and my anticipation is further excited by the thought, "I wonder what picture he put up?"
Especially for this topic. Not that I thought we would see anything randy not did I desire to, but I thought maybe you would delight us with a modest Hogarth engraving or something of the sort.
Amy
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Posted by Susan on September 28, 1996 at 10:32:32:
:
: :
: : I'll start the voting with "Northangler Abby".
: : Susan
: No, thanks. My least favorite.
: Tommye
: How about "Persuasion?"
Tommye,
The consesus seem to be that we read P&P this time around. I really don't mind what the choice turns out to be. I only suggested " Northangler Abby" because it is one of the shorter novels. I have only read "Emma", so I had no idea that "NA" is so bad.
I hope that you are feeling better soon!
Susan
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Posted by Amy on September 28, 1996 at 10:47:48:
It isn't bad, Susan. But it's an early work, which some consider a transition work from the even earlier satirical juvenilia to her P&P/S&S phase.
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Posted by Ramona on September 28, 1996 at 14:27:16:
I don't recall anyone mentioning this and I just disovered it myself. But on the A&E classroom page there is a link to support materials for the shows.
I have provided the link for the Pride & Prejudice study guide which A&E says teachers are free to print out.
Check it out!
http://www.aetv.com/aeclassroom/teach/aeclass6.html
Link:
Posted by Ramona on September 28, 1996 at 14:48:16:
Thanks again to all who answered my call to action.
I respectfully understand that others have attempted to contact A&E personnel regarding the Making of P&P and met without success. But I wouldn't feel right just leaving it at that unless I knew I put my two cents in as well.
If it is not economically feasible for the network to air the show during broadcast hours, maybe they could still do it in conjunction with the classroom showings--it would be educational about the film industry as well as history. Or at the very least A&E could offer it on home video through their store.
I will be contacting them today. I will first flatter them and then proceed to make my requests. Any who would care to know what I said can email me at--oasis@tir.com
Below is a link to the A&E feedback form for others who want to participate.
Here I go girls!!! and guys :]
Link:
Posted by Johanna on September 28, 1996 at 15:01:01:
: : : I was wondering if anyone might have made a screen saver from some of the delicious images of Pride and Prejudice2. I am such a novice with the computer I don't yet know how to make my own. If someone can tell me how to do it, I would be appreciative. Or if anyone knows of where I could purchase one, I would also be happy. Also, I was wondering how I might check for an answer to this message. Sorry I'm so inept with all these newfangled electronic wonders like discussion groups and e-mail. Sandra McClarty
: : Nah, just go get a shareware copy of Snagit or WinCopy then get Movie Time! and you can make your own screen saver. I have several collections: Vermeer, P&P2, Calvin and Hobbs, X-Files (heh, heh, I should say X-Philes, I have seen every ep since day one, how embarassing!), and a variety of stuff. If _I_ can do it, you'll have a breeze. Good luck!
: : Johanna
: Do you have to have a scanner? Would you be so kind as to
: share your P&P one with us?
: Pamela
I don't use a scanner, the pictures are already on the web and I capture them in Snagit or WinCopy (shareware). Movie Time! creates a little player within my desktop. I'm mot into computers enough to really explain it well, it is pretty easy and the pictures can be dumped into a special folder in your "bitmap" folder, blah, blah, sorry. you are welcome to email me and I'll do my best to explain what I did. I just grabbed pictures from various web sites. If I had a scanner or a video capture card (way different topic) I would do shots from the video or the book (Making of..). So, I have not broached the topic of copyright (the FOF page will not be happy..oops!)
Johanna
Follow Ups:
Posted by Joan, too on September 28, 1996 at 15:27:02:
: Johanna:
: I don't use a scanner, the pictures are already on the
: web and I capture them in Snagit or WinCopy (shareware).
Mac users may be interested in a too-little-known feature which is built into in all models of Macintoshes - you do not even need to have an application with which to do this. Whatever you are looking at on the screen can be captured into a PICT file by using the COMMAND-SHIFT-3 keystroke combination. In older Macs these are saved onto the root (main) level of your hard drive with the name "Screen 0" "Screen 1", "Screen 2", etc, and in newer models, the name will be "Picture 1", "Picture 2" etc. [Of course, it is a good idea to re-name these files so that you can tell what they are, and to prevent the eventual creation of "Picture 573", "Picture 2001" or somesuch. ;-) ]
Joan, too
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Posted by Joan, too on September 28, 1996 at 15:34:44:
: Cheryl:
: This will open up all manner of "compare and contrast" dialogues; how well did the film portray this moment, what was left out of the movie that should not have been, in what ways are the novel superior to the film (I know this borders on the blasphemous, but it is nonetheless true),
... and in what ways the film might be superior to the novel (I know this is definitely blasphemous, but may nonetheless, in rare instances, be true) ;-)
Joan, too
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Posted by Tommye on September 28, 1996 at 15:46:32:
:
: :
: : :
: : : I'll start the voting with "Northangler Abby".
: : : Susan
: : No, thanks. My least favorite.
: : Tommye
: : How about "Persuasion?"
:
: Tommye,
: The consesus seem to be that we read P&P this time around. I really don't mind what the choice turns out to be. I only suggested " Northangler Abby" because it is one of the shorter novels. I have only read "Emma", so I had no idea that "NA" is so bad.
: I hope that you are feeling better soon!
: Susan
Thanks, Susan, for the kind word. I'll be glad to read P&P, but must make a quick trip to the library.
Tommye
Posted by Cheryl on September 28, 1996 at 16:29:28:
:
: : Cheryl:
: : This will open up all manner of "compare and contrast" dialogues; how well did the film portray this moment, what was left out of the movie that should not have been, in what ways are the novel superior to the film (I know this borders on the blasphemous, but it is nonetheless true),
: ... and in what ways the film might be superior to the novel (I know this is definitely blasphemous, but may nonetheless, in rare instances, be true) ;-)
: Joan, too
Quite so, quite so, but please do not mention that I admitted such a thing to the kind people at Austen-l. I do not wish to be cut off!
Cheryl
Posted by Anna-Karin on September 28, 1996 at 16:31:57:
: It's very clear the what the moral standards for women
: of this period were but were they the same for men?
: Did Mr. Darcy save himself for his beloved?
:
: Was thier world full of the same double standards you
: see in later years?
: Even if those standards existed would Mr. Darcy, by principal
: wait for his true love.
Well hard to answer properly. It has been discussed a little on
the Austen-list and on the Firthlist.
With my knowledge of the time(but I am no expert on english history)
I would agree with Henry on the double standard of that time.
wether Darcy was unexperienced with ladies is open to debate.
But as a young rich and wery handsome(certainly if he looked
like in P&P2)
man of 27-28 I should think it unlikely that he was totally innocent
(I do not know what we should hope for Lizzys sake).
It was notexpected at that time that young men of that class
should betotally innoocent at their weddingnights
To get some experiences was
almost part of a young mans "education".And there was a lot of
prostitutes and brothel of didfferent class especially in London.
Many rich men also keept mistresses.and many servant girls was used
by their employers.
I should say that mr Darcy propably had better morals than most young men
of his class at that time. But I do not think he was totally innocent.
We know from P&P that he was fastidious and sometimes shy and really
disgusted at Wickhams bad morals (wich indeed must have been very bad considering
what young men generally was allowed).he was also proud. so I do
not think he frequented the prostitutes or brothels of London (I do not
want him to either).I think he would be to proud to openly bye a womans favour
and he would probably never seduce and abandon women like wickam probably did.
The only hints (if they are any hints ) from P&P we get is his comment
to Miss Bingley over -the very great pleasure a pair of fine eyes in a face
of a pretty woman can bestow(maybe he was thinking about more than eyes).
and his a little cheeky remarks at Netherfield about admiring
miss Bingleys and Lizzys figures.and maybe also his thought about Lizzies
light and pleasing figure. In P&P2 col. Fitzwilliam says that Darcy could be
lively enough in other places in the book it is said that he hinted that
darcy could be generally different from his reserved behaviour at Rosings and
Hunsford.(It is also hinted at some places in the text that he is less reserved
inmmore intimate situations with his friends than in more formal situations).
this is the only clues we have got plus our knowledge of the mores
of the time.
I believe that he probably had some experience in his past but
not to much.and in any case he would never seduce or leave a women
abandoned like Wickham probably did.
As for the wedding night we can only hope that he know what to do as
my mother put it after seing the TV series(she was a little worried for him).
this was a long post exuse my bad english
Anna-Karin
Posted by Raphael on September 28, 1996 at 16:37:26:
:
: It isn't bad, Susan. But it's an early work, which some consider a transition work from the even earlier satirical juvenilia to her P&P/S&S phase.
I'm glad *somebody* said that. I am currently involved in
reading it this very minute, and though it is certainly less
graceful and flowing than P&P, S&S, and Emma, I do like it.
One must, I think, endeavour to read them all.
Raphael
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