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Posted by Joan, too on September 27, 1996 at 21:49:35:
: Marsha:
: What about Mary's singing? Doesn't she deserve some praise (grin) Mary doesn't sing as well as Lizzie, but I am interested in her second song: "My mother bids me bind my hair." Does anybody know the words, or anything about it.
I could swear that I have this somewhere, but at this moment I can't put my finger on it.
: Also, what about info on her first song: "Slumber, dear maid" (Also about "My mother bids me bind my hair" She must have quite an imagination, I can't imagine Mrs bennett doing anything of the sort)
This one is actually an aria from Handel's opera Xerxes, first performed in 1738. Named "Ombra Mai Fu" it's ,,,,,,,,,,,,,also often called (after its intended tempo) "Largo". The music book in which I have it comments "Little but controlled and stately music-making, undisturbed by dramatic pungencies, is needed for bringing about a satisfying performance of this Aria." (It's basically an ode to a tree.) ;-)
:Also, a little bit of the subject: Why was Jane not taught to sing? Does she have any talent (In the book Lizzie says to Lady C. that only one of her sisters sings (meaning Mary, if you can call that singing) Why did Jane not learn? Any ideas?
Perhaps she was tone deaf? It does happen in the best of families. ;-)
Posted by Joan, too on September 27, 1996 at 22:01:04:
: Amy. Every time i try to follow a link to your questionnaire, an error message comes back saying it doesn't exist.
: How can i get it, and submit my answers? Hope you can help. - Matthew -
How wierd! And my browser says that that item contains no text.
Well, fortunately, Dana and Tamar listed the questions in their response, so here they are again:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
: 1) Name-
: 2) Occupation-
: 3) When you first saw P&P2-
: 4) How did you find out about it?
: 5) What interested you in seeing it?
: 6) Have you read the original novel?
: 7) If so, before or after seeing the movie?
: 8) Favorite character(s) (other than Lizzy or Darcy-as liking them goes without saying.)
: 9) Favorite scene/sequence
: 10) Most awkward scene to watch (or not watch because you feel so embarrassed for the
characters involved)-
: 11) Other Austen films viewed-
: 12) Anything else you would like to share (interests, marital status etc...)-
Follow Ups:
Posted by Cheryl on September 27, 1996 at 22:32:52:
Hey! Where is MY bio? Is it something I said, or did it get lost in the shuffle? I couldn't even find it on the main page. Should I resubmit?
Cheryl
Follow Ups:
Posted by Arnessa on September 27, 1996 at 22:39:17:
: Indeed, I am rather developing a severe sort of discomfort inside me
: as to which mode of deport to emulate. Should I, on the one hand, endeavor
: to think ill of every one I meet, or should I instead eagerly desire
: to think well of every body? Earnest openness or mysterious insolence?
: I hear so many conflicting opinions on the subject as to not know what
: to think.
: &tc, &tc,
: Raphael
I understand your dilemma entirely. Ever since I first read the book in high school, I longed to have the wit and vivacity of Lizzy. Now, after seeing P&P2 and realizing how intriguing a brooding nature can be, I find myself more and more ill-qualified to recommend myself to strangers.
-Arnessa.
Posted by Joan, too on September 27, 1996 at 22:39:23:
: Hey! Where is MY bio? Is it something I said, or did it get lost in the shuffle? I couldn't even find it on the main page. Should I resubmit?
: Cheryl
Not to worry! You are not lost - Amy probably just hasn't quite got them all linked yet. And if she can't find you, I html-ed you so I can send it to her again. :-)
Joan, too
Follow Ups:
Posted by Bea on September 27, 1996 at 22:42:05:
Amy,
Please add me to the bio-list! Its nice to know others share
in this "addiction".
Bea
PS. I'm not new to this group, I've been lurking a while.
:-)
: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
: : 1) Name-
Bea
: : 2) Occupation-
Computer Programmer
: : 3) When you first saw P&P2-
A&E's first run
: : 4) How did you find out about it?
Ads on other tv stations about it.
: : 5) What interested you in seeing it?
Had read the book over-and-over again for the
previous two years!!
: : 6) Have you read the original novel?
Yes, over-and-over again!
: : 7) If so, before or after seeing the movie?
Happy to say before the A&E series and Austen
mania picked up.
: : 8) Favorite character(s) (other than Lizzy or Darcy-as liking them goes without saying.)
Probably Jane, b/c I know, as Lizzy knew, how
nice it is to confide in a sister.
: : 9) Favorite scene/sequence
I always liked the Pemberley meeting. I remeber
the first time I read it, it was soooo romantic!
My book naturally falls open to this part, I had
to read it again and again.
: : 10) Most awkward scene to watch (or not watch because you feel so embarrassed for the
: characters involved)-
Probably the scene where Darcy's cousin Colonel
Fitzwilliam tells Lizzy about how his cousin
Darcy saved Bingley from 'the inconveniences of
a most imprudent marriage'. And of course any
scene in which Mrs. Bennet is speaking, whining
or complaining!
: : 11) Other Austen films viewed-
I just rented Persuasion with Amanda Root? It
was a little dreary, but I loved it. Watched it
3 times in a row. Saw Sense and Sensibility
a couple of times. Loved it as well. Still have
not yet seen Emma.
: : 12) Anything else you would like to share (interests, marital status etc...)-
Married 3 years. Read "Pelican Brief" and "Age of
Innocence" on my honeymoon in Maui. Saw a difference
in the writings of today and yesteryear. Then have read
Pride and Prejudice, Sense and Sensibility,
and Persuasion. I think this group is great;
everytime I workout on the Nordic Track or bike, I
watch my P&P2 tapes. Can't admit that to
just anybody!
Posted by Bea on September 27, 1996 at 22:50:44:
: Yes, I saw Jane Eyre, and Amanda Root was wonderful as Jane's kind teacher!
Posted by Lisa J on September 27, 1996 at 23:23:56:
Oops! Corin Redgrave was Sir Walter Elliot, not Mr. Elliot. Capital offense!
I also forgot James Fleet who was John Dashwood (S&S) and Tom (4WF)
Posted by Ann on September 27, 1996 at 23:30:46:
: There is also the house-
: keeper saying Darcy just doesnt rattle on as much as other young
: men. But its an interesting question, and CF has certainly
: defined Darcy in this way. Speaking of which, don't you like
: the way he's always fiddling with his ring? I think its a
: great touch.
Take a look at "Valmont" which was filmed back in 1988 or 89.
In "Valmont" Firth fiddles with his ring in the same manner!
Perhaps it is just a distracted habit and not intentional.
Ann
Follow Ups:
Posted by Amy on September 27, 1996 at 23:38:56:
: : the way he's always fiddling with his ring? I think its a
: : great touch.
: Take a look at "Valmont" which was filmed back in 1988 or 89.
: In "Valmont" Firth fiddles with his ring in the same manner!
: Perhaps it is just a distracted habit and not intentional.
Maybe it's sick, but I love anything he does that smacks of vulnerabilitly.
Posted by Arnessa on September 28, 1996 at 00:03:26:
: When Lizzie meets Georgiana in the book it says "Since her
: being at Lambton, she had heard that Miss Darcy was exceedingly
: proud; but the observation of a very few minutes convinced her
: that she was only exceedingly shy." Don't you think the same
: could be said of Darcy, only he has had 12 more years to deal
: with his shyness, and the advantages of being male and monied?
: And Lizzie has not just been slighted by Georgiana. Shy people usually
: develop mechanisms for sociallising as they get older, and
: are then merely called reserved.(This is me!)It also doesn't
: stop them having occasional boldness. There is also the house-
: keeper saying Darcy just doesnt rattle on as much as other young
: men. But its an interesting question, and CF has certainly
: defined Darcy in this way. Speaking of which, don't you like
: the way he's always fiddling with his ring? I think its a
: great touch.
Yes, Firth does have some little mannerisms that are utterly charming. I loved the way he would sometimes cock his head to the side and purse his lips in a boyish way before speaking, as in his line at Hunsford: "Yes, I call it a very easy distance." (sigh) I notice, too, that Firth seems to like playing shy guys like in A Month in the Country and that other film ... oh! you know, the one where he plays a cinema owner who takes in a serial killer as a boarder. Anyway, Firth does the shy thing really well, and I think that , like any good actor, he recycled a bit of what he does best and used it for Darcy.
I know what you mean about shy people developing mechanisms for coping and about shy people having the ability to be occasionally bold, but I don't think that's the case with Darcy, however Firth's portrayal makes it appear so. Like the person who started the thread about the Netherfield dance awhile ago, I always saw Darcy as holding his own, as giving pretty much as good as he got from Lizzy in the book. I never imagined Darcy pausing and stammering a bit during the exchange at Netherfield where he says, "I have faults enough, Miss Bennet." And during the dance at Netherfield, I think Ehle is acting circles around Firth (pun intended). But Firth outdoes her in the first proposal scene, where Ehle appears a little stiff. And if Darcy is supposed to be shy, how do you explain that first proposal?
Anyway, Firth gives me a different Darcy than I imagined, in some ways a more complex and finely nuanced Darcy than what Jane Austen described, and, indeed, I do not dare despise his Darcy.
-Arnessa.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Lilian on September 28, 1996 at 00:17:45:
Just adding my data to the bio list:
: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
: : 1) Name-
Lilian
: : 2) Occupation-
Student (although I graduate in 5 weeks!!!)
: : 3) When you first saw P&P2-
March 1996 (Australia tends to screen shows after the show
is old news to everyone else around the world)
: : 4) How did you find out about it?
On the internet last year. I stumbled on the web site
after looking for Mr. Darcy (aren't we all?)
: : 5) What interested you in seeing it?
P&P is my all time favorite novel, anything related to
it, I will see or read.
: : 6) Have you read the original novel?
Definately, it's brilliant
: : 7) If so, before or after seeing the movie?
Kind of inbetween. I have a confession to make...the
novel was a compulsory study for Year 11 English and
I wasn't too thrilled about it. (Thought it was another
one of those boring out-of-date English feminine books - I was wrong!)
I refused to read past chapter 3 - (I apparently said to someone,
"I'm not reading this silly book!" oops!). We started watching
the 1985 BBC version and suddenly I was hooked. I kept
asking my friend (who finished reading the book) if Darcy
got Lizzy and she kept irritating me by giving me dodgy
answers and silly grins. Finally I gave up trying to find out
and read the book myself.
: : 8) Favorite character(s) (other than Lizzy or Darcy-as liking them goes without saying.)
Probably Mr.Collins and Mary. They are so hilarious to watch, even
though I squirm with embarrassment for them. (Especially with Mr.Collin's
frog legs and Mary's singing scenes)
: : 9) Favorite scene/sequence
(1)Darcy and Lizzy immediately after the wedding and Darcy is smiling
like a proud puppy. (Although this is not in the novel)
(2)Darcy gazing adoringly at Lizzy in Pemberley
: : 10) Most awkward scene to watch (or not watch because you feel so embarrassed for the
: characters involved)-
When Mrs Bennett is being rude to Darcy in Longbourne just after he
has saved the family from disgrace by Lydia. I cringe every time.
Poor Darcy!
: : 11) Other Austen films viewed-
Sense and Sensibility, Persuasion
: : 12) Anything else you would like to share (interests, marital status etc...)-
I live in Melbourne, Australia; have a dog named Indy (after Indiana Jones);
and my pseudomyn is Emilie-Jane Darcy.
Posted by The Mysterious H.C. on September 28, 1996 at 00:31:17:
: It's very clear the what the moral standards for women
: of this period were but were they the same for men?
In a word, No
: Was their world full of the same double standards you
: see in later years?
I have some cute quotes on this in the appropriate section of my web page below.
Did Darcy save himself for his beloved? Even if those standards existed would Mr. Darcy, by principle
: wait for his true love?
That's pretty much open to speculation and interpretation.
My guess is that he could actually still have been a virgin, but through social awkwardness and finding sordid liasons to be unaesthetic and personally degrading -- rather than out of high abstract morals or romantic purity.
Link:
Follow Ups:
Posted by Arnessa on September 28, 1996 at 00:45:01:
: I think one of the keys to understanding why Lucy loves George is in understanding Lucia herself. The time she plays Beethoven and Mr. Beebe says, daringly, that Lucy should live as she plays. She then
: goes out in public, unaccompanied. This is rather daring for that time. She want to live a life of passion, see Florence, though, as Mr. Beebe says, unwise to go alone. Lucy replies by saying "to be wise,
: one might have stayed at Summer Street". The fainting/murder scene is key "Italians can be so lovable and yet so violent.." If murder isn't the ultimate passion, what is?? Back to her playing....
: She says her mother says she is always "peevish" after playing Beethoven. Again at Windy Corner, Mr. Beebe tells Cecil that if Lucy took to living like she played it would be good for all of us.
: I think Lucy is passionate, she see's a hint of (a kindred spirit) that in the dour George. From the moment they lay eyes on each other at the Pensione dinner table (his beans arranged in a question mark) she is intrigued and,
: of course is attracted to him. I think she wants passion. I think she likes being swept up (note how she watches the Italians necking as they are being driven to San Gimin.... whatever the spelling is
: here). Passion is important in George and Lucy's relationship. Not just sexual passion but living passionately, even though they really live simple lives. She remembers the poppy field kiss after her first kiss by "the sacred lake" with Cecil.
: She tries to have passsion in her music, in her life but she doesn't learn how to get it until she gets away from Cecil and the convention of what she is supposed to do and stops lying to everyone (including herself).
: As a feminist bonus George tells her he wants her to have her own thoughts and feelings, even when he holds her in his arms. That is why she says "Freddy thinks he is being dignified; everyone knew we were goign away in the spring". Wow.
Yes. I like these thoughts. I always see Lucy as a Lizzy pretending to be a Charlotte Lucas. Buy WHY does Lucy deny her passionate side? This is never explained to us. I guess we're supposed to assume it's a sort of middle class morality that's suffocating her, but I have trouble buying that. Someone's wrong somewhere either Austen or Forster. Either it should be impossible for Lizzy to be so strong-willed and independent given societal expectations at the time or it should be impossible that Lucy should be so afraid to follow her heart given her circumstances. Lucy's family doesn't seem to exert any undue pressure on her to marry well, yet somehow she feels she must accept Cecil. Lizzy's mother, at least, has probably been drilling into her head since the day she was born that she had to marry well, yet Lizzy can refuse Mr. Collins without being assured that any other offer of marriage will ever be made to her.
I also think George could be viewed as a Darcy pretending to be a Wickham, or better a Willoughby. George seems off-the-wall, romantic, foolish, carefree, but if you look at the way he really takes care of his father, how he talks to him with gentleness and respect, you have to see that George is a reliable, honorable, loving person. I think Lucy sees this from the beginning, as George and his father are always together, and that's part of what makes her fall for him.
-Arnessa.
Posted by Susan on September 28, 1996 at 01:52:31:
Well, my idea seems to be a hit! I'm up for suggestions as to how we should do the readings. Amy's idea of four chapters per week seems to be a good one. Maybe we could have discussions every monday (?), which would give people a chance to read over the weekend. Please help. I'm not sure what else to suggest.
I'll start the voting with "Northangler Abby".
Susan
Follow Ups:
Posted by Cheryl on September 28, 1996 at 02:37:36:
Dear Friends,
We all agree that reading an Austen novel together will be a fine thing, however, we are all of such a compliant nature that it will be some time before we can decide upon anything. Someone needs to be assertive and make a specific proposal, which I shall humbly venture to provide. If this seems agreeable to the majority, it can be implemented quickly.
I am reluctant to begin a four chapter per week read a la Austen-L, because at 60+ chapters, it will take months to conclude. Amy suggested reading P&P in sections tied to the videos. I like this idea because to feeds directly into our primary obsession, the raison d'etre, if you will, of why we are all here.
My proposal is that we read P&P and view P&P2 simultaneously, ie week one would be comprised of viewing tape one and the corresponding chapters. This will open up all manner of "compare and contrast" dialogues; how well did the film portray this moment, what was left out of the movie that should not have been, in what ways are the novel superior to the film (I know this borders on the blasphemous, but it is nonetheless true), etc. In this way we will be also be through in six weeks, the commitment level shall not be as demanding (no small consideration), and we can move on to another book.
I shall be happy to post a tape to chapter breakdown (and for those of you who do not own the six tape box set, the corresponding cut off points.)
Hoping that I came across as caringly assertive and not pushy, I remain your humble servant,
Cheryl
Follow Ups:
Posted by Susan on September 28, 1996 at 03:01:49:
: Dear Friends,
: We all agree that reading an Austen novel together will be a fine thing, however, we are all of such a compliant nature that it will be some time before we can decide upon anything. Someone needs to be assertive and make a specific proposal, which I shall humbly venture to provide. If this seems agreeable to the majority, it can be implemented quickly.
: I am reluctant to begin a four chapter per week read a la Austen-L, because at 60+ chapters, it will take months to conclude. Amy suggested reading P&P in sections tied to the videos. I like this idea because to feeds directly into our primary obsession, the raison d'etre, if you will, of why we are all here.
: My proposal is that we read P&P and view P&P2 simultaneously, ie week one would be comprised of viewing tape one and the corresponding chapters. This will open up all manner of "compare and contrast" dialogues; how well did the film portray this moment, what was left out of the movie that should not have been, in what ways are the novel superior to the film (I know this borders on the blasphemous, but it is nonetheless true), etc. In this way we will be also be through in six weeks, the commitment level shall not be as demanding (no small consideration), and we can move on to another book.
: I shall be happy to post a tape to chapter breakdown (and for those of you who do not own the six tape box set, the corresponding cut off points.)
: Hoping that I came across as caringly assertive and not pushy, I remain your humble servant,
: Cheryl
Sounds great to me!!! I do not own the box set of P&P, so a breakdown would be much appreciated. When do we start?
Susan
Posted by Marie on September 28, 1996 at 03:06:45:
: : 9) Favorite scene/sequence Originally the gazing scene at Pemberly, but now it's a tie between the pavane at Netherfield and the distraught scene at the inn at Lampton (sp?).
I incorrectly wrote "pavane" for "sarabande". I should have made it simple and just called it the dance scene at Netherfield. Also, I notice that I've mispelled Lambton. Please correct both when you do the bio link. Thanks.
Posted by Eva Tiedemann on September 28, 1996 at 06:52:11:
Hi! I'm a devoted P+P fan and I heard there was a sequel to this excellent novel. If theres anyone out there who knows what it's called PLLLEEEEAAASSSEEEEE tell me the name ot it.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Amy on September 28, 1996 at 07:23:03:
: Hi! I'm a devoted P+P fan and I heard there was a sequel to this excellent novel. If theres anyone out there who knows what it's called PLLLEEEEAAASSSEEEEE tell me the name ot it.
New Eva,
There's a discussion of Pemberly Shades further down on the main page. Also, since so many people have been wondering about the sequels, you have tipped the balance and caused me to realize there should be an item on the FAQ about them. I also added a sub-link to the Jane Austen Info page about them from the links page within this site.
Amy
Link:
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