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Posted by Chris on September 26, 1996 at 10:10:16:
As many times as I've watched P&P2, I'm still confused about Darcy's
reaction in the scene when Georgianna is playing the pianoforte
and Miss Bingly affronts Elizabeth about Wickam. He started to get up,
and didn't, of course, because Elizabeth handled the situation so
beautifully. But ... was Darcy going to confront Miss Bingly or
go to his sister or what? Anyone have any ideas?
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Posted by Brigid on September 26, 1996 at 10:22:22:
:. But ... was Darcy going to confront Miss Bingly or
: go to his sister or what? Anyone have any ideas?
I think that he was going to his siste. It seems like an impulsive gesture. He
just knew that he had to do something to help Georgianna.
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Posted by Jane on September 26, 1996 at 10:28:24:
H.C., what a lovely picture and quote! But isn't that Mary Crawford playing? At first I thought you were writing in the style of JA, and I was going to beg you to write the rest of the book! It's time I read NA again.
Jane
Posted by Mich on September 26, 1996 at 10:40:32:
In so many of Jane Austin novels she talks about a place called Bath. Can anyone tell where this place is and why is seems to be so important
to the people of this period.
This is assuming that it was a real place and not something she made up.
Thanks
Mich
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Posted by Dina on September 26, 1996 at 10:55:31:
: I think you are right about being spoiled by Austen's ability to sink us deep into her characters to the point of identifying with them or falling in love with them.
: So if that isn't the draw to Forster, what is it? He was an expert on the novel. Maybe it's the stories and the way they unfold that we like.
: About being grabbed in the barley field? No, his dad was right, he shouldn't have without a clearer invitation. As women, feminists or not, we and Lucy can say no, as she did after the second grabbing at Windy Corner. But the thing is, she didn't mean no. Nobody in real life gets to interpret a no as a yes. But George isn't real; I will let him see into her heart and take what I know she wants to give. Note that even at the end of the film, it's still a game with them. She protests his "bothering" her while she is reading Freddie's letter. Yeah, right.
: Amy
I think one of the keys to understanding why Lucy loves George is in understanding Lucia herself. The time she plays Beethoven and Mr. Beebe says, daringly, that Lucy should live as she plays. She then
goes out in public, unaccompanied. This is rather daring for that time. She want to live a life of passion, see Florence, though, as Mr. Beebe says, unwise to go alone. Lucy replies by saying "to be wise,
one might have stayed at Summer Street". The fainting/murder scene is key "Italians can be so lovable and yet so violent.." If murder isn't the ultimate passion, what is?? Back to her playing....
She says her mother says she is always "peevish" after playing Beethoven. Again at Windy Corner, Mr. Beebe tells Cecil that if Lucy took to living like she played it would be good for all of us.
I think Lucy is passionate, she see's a hint of (a kindred spirit) that in the dour George. From the moment they lay eyes on each other at the Pensione dinner table (his beans arranged in a question mark) she is intrigued and,
of course is attracted to him. I think she wants passion. I think she likes being swept up (note how she watches the Italians necking as they are being driven to San Gimin.... whatever the spelling is
here). Passion is important in George and Lucy's relationship. Not just sexual passion but living passionately, even though they really live simple lives. She remembers the poppy field kiss after her first kiss by "the sacred lake" with Cecil.
She tries to have passsion in her music, in her life but she doesn't learn how to get it until she gets away from Cecil and the convention of what she is supposed to do and stops lying to everyone (including herself).
As a feminist bonus George tells her he wants her to have her own thoughts and feelings, even when he holds her in his arms. That is why she says "Freddy thinks he is being dignified; everyone knew we were goign away in the spring". Wow.
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Posted by Donna on September 26, 1996 at 10:56:13:
: In so many of Jane Austin novels she talks about a place called Bath. Can anyone tell where this place is and why is seems to be so important
: to the people of this period.
: This is assuming that it was a real place and not something she made up.
: Thanks
: Mich
It is a real place,check out the "Links Page": "Henry
Churchyard" within this dicussion group. He has a list
of real places and made up. Plus much more info.
Donna
Posted by Lynne on September 26, 1996 at 11:30:21:
: : As some of you know, my family is away so I am enjoying guilt-free viewing. As I watched for the ____teenth time, I heard something that has always bothered me, but never knew whom to ask regarding this, but now I have found all of you, and someone here will have the answer to my inquiry. In the scene when Darcy is writing his infamous letter to Lizzy and he gets to the part where he writes "This Madam, is a faithful narrative of all my dealings with Mr. Wickham" there are what sounds to me to be screams in the background for the next several seconds (muted, to be sure, but there nonetheless.) The only explanation I can come up with is that it appears to be close to daybreak and it could be a rooster, I suppose, but if so it is a rooster in dire distress! Quick ladies, to the tapes! It happens near the beginning of tape four (but you already knew that, did you not?) Someone tell me I am not imagining this!
: : Cheryl
: I hate to be a party-pooper, but that's not the cry of a peacock. Additionally peacocks don't cry through the night. I'm not sure what it is, but I really think it's a dramatic element (sounds like some bird of prey to me). Don't be mad at me! I lived at a house in England that was loaded with the damn things! I think they are beautiful etc, but that wasn't the call I remember hearing for those years.
: Johanna
: Its a fox! We have lots in the countryside here in England
:Lynne
Posted by Amy on September 26, 1996 at 11:38:22:
: :. But ... was Darcy going to confront Miss Bingly or
: : go to his sister or what? Anyone have any ideas?
: I think that he was going to his siste. It seems like an impulsive gesture. He
: just knew that he had to do something to help Georgianna.
I think Brigid is right, he was reflexively on the way to protect -- how, his body didn't know yet. We can only hope that if Lizzy had not handled the situation, he would have let his animal instincts go as they wished and beat the tar out of Miss Bingely. And Mrs Hurst for laughing and jsut for good measure.
Amy
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Posted by Jane on September 26, 1996 at 11:52:53:
Amy tells us:
: Odd set up in my house. My kids have the master bedroom as a playroom, along with the biggest TV. I am joyfully confined to the basement (aka Mom's World) with my bed, piano, computer and nothing but a 10-inch TV but wonderful booming sound.
: Anyway, since the VCR inputs the amp, I can use the stereo's cassette recorder to copy sound from video tapes!
Amy, there must be inspiration for a house name for you with your delightful setup. "Lower Bluemarble"?
Jane
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Posted by Amy on September 26, 1996 at 11:54:59:
: : Its a fox! We have lots in the countryside here in England
Lynne, we have yet to have a poster from England. What can you tell us about the new Emma? Has there been much publicity about it yet?
Amy
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Posted by Mich on September 26, 1996 at 12:23:58:
: :. But ... was Darcy going to confront Miss Bingly or
: : go to his sister or what? Anyone have any ideas?
: I think that he was going to his siste. It seems like an impulsive gesture. He
: just knew that he had to do something to help Georgianna.
As restrained as Darcy is about expressing himself I doubt he would confront Miss Bingley
in public. He does seem to be very sensitive to the feeling of those people whom he cares for so
I think it is more likely he was going to try and help his sister.
If he were going to confront Miss Bingley in that manner he would have done so in the scene after
Lizzy tells him about infamous elopement.
If remember correctly, in that scene,he is abrupt with Ms. Bingley after she teases him about mourning the loss of Miss Bennet. He even shocks the Bingley and Georgiana by walking out
of the music room.
It is the only time I can remember where he almost looses control in public.
Any one have a different opinion?
Mich
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Posted by Amy on September 26, 1996 at 12:46:08:
: If he were going to confront Miss Bingley in that manner he would have done so in the scene after
: Lizzy tells him about infamous elopement.
: If remember correctly, in that scene,he is abrupt with Ms. Bingley after she teases him about mourning the loss of Miss Bennet. He even shocks the Bingley and Georgiana by walking out
: of the music room.
That is the one scene, among the missing ones I have heard described, that I would most like to see. If I wanted to get just that part of the library's set, which tape would it be? Four or five? I have a sneaky feeling I have put off watching the full version and am somehow saving the pleasure of it for a special time. Dear fellow addicts, you are the only ones to whom I could admit such a thing.
Amy
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Posted by Ann on September 26, 1996 at 13:04:00:
: Is the Olivier version of P&P good? Does anyone like it as much
: as the 1995 version? I saw only a bit of the Olivier version but
: it didn't quite appeal to me. Does this mean that I am not a true
: P&P fan??? Anyone out there that may support me?
The Olivier version is widely considered to be very bad.
Even Olivier felt it was one of his worst performances. He
played Darcy like a fop.
Ann
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Posted by Donna on September 26, 1996 at 13:09:20:
: Is the Olivier version of P&P good? Does anyone like it as much
: as the 1995 version? I saw only a bit of the Olivier version but
: it didn't quite appeal to me. Does this mean that I am not a true
: P&P fan??? Anyone out there that may support me?
No.
No.
Good
No.
Yes.
I like old Hollywood movies but this dosen't make the top of my list to see,
again.
Donna
Posted by Ann on September 26, 1996 at 13:11:03:
: Amy tells us:
: : Odd set up in my house. My kids have the master bedroom as a playroom, along with the biggest TV. I am joyfully confined to the basement (aka Mom's World) with my bed, piano, computer and nothing but a 10-inch TV but wonderful booming sound.
: : Anyway, since the VCR inputs the amp, I can use the stereo's cassette recorder to copy sound from video tapes!
: Amy, there must be inspiration for a house name for you with your delightful setup. "Lower Bluemarble"?
: Jane
There's even a song to go with it.
From the childrens TV show of the 70's:
The world's a big blue marble
When you see it from out there.
The sun and moon declare
Our beauty's very rare!
Ann
Posted by Amy on September 26, 1996 at 13:15:17:
: The Olivier version is widely considered to be very bad.
: Even Olivier felt it was one of his worst performances. He
: played Darcy like a fop.
Ann, I am happy to hear this. Do you really think it's a general opinion? I know some who love the movie despite the costuming errors and all the other liberties.
Oh my goodness, I just heard live what Richard Davis, Polly Klass's murderer said in court. Can you believe there are people liek that on earth?
Amy
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Posted by tommye on September 26, 1996 at 13:17:11:
: : Seeking to be the real non-deluded Lizzy in all my dealings.
: : Amy
:
: I am sure that, despite your earnest desire, you take particular
: delight in professing opinions which are not your own. But never
: fear, you do not frighten me.
: You are most fortunate to be blessed with merely trying to make
: sense of one individual. I am left to choose whether -- upon
: entering a room -- it would not be more befitting my addiction
: to immediately progress to a window, making sure I stood staring
: outside with the utter preoccupation of a brooding, insular being,
: or rather instead sit and stare at my acquaintances with an earnest,
: honest, and open countenance.
: Indeed, I am rather developing a severe sort of discomfort inside me
: as to which mode of deport to emulate. Should I, on the one hand, endeavor
: to think ill of every one I meet, or should I instead eagerly desire
: to think well of every body? Earnest openness or mysterious insolence?
: I hear so many conflicting opinions on the subject as to not know what
: to think.
: &tc, &tc,
: Raphael
:Wow! I'm impressed!. Tommye
Posted by Ann on September 26, 1996 at 13:28:00:
: : The Olivier version is widely considered to be very bad.
: : Even Olivier felt it was one of his worst performances. He
: : played Darcy like a fop.
:
: Ann, I am happy to hear this. Do you really think it's a general opinion? I know some who love the movie despite the costuming errors and all the other liberties.
: Amy
:
I'm afraid not all share the opinion.
Here is the review from "Leonard Maltin's Movie and Video
Guide 1995":
"(****)
Outstanding adaptaion of Jane Austen's novel about five
husband-hunting sisters in 19th century England. Excellent
cast, fine period flavor in classic comedy of manners;
Aldous Huxley was one of the screen writers. Cedric Gibbons
and Paul Groesse's art direction deservedly earned an Oscar."
--Leonard Maltin
I think that review just shows that Maltin had not the
slightest appreciation for the book! The movie has the same
authenticity to the book as Demi Moore's "Scarlet Letter"!
I think Firth--on the A&E site--is again the source for
Olivier's opinion of his own performance.
Ann
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Posted by Cheryl on September 26, 1996 at 13:41:49:
: That is the one scene, among the missing ones I have heard described, that I would most like to see. If I wanted to get just that part of the library's set, which tape would it be? Four or five? I have a sneaky feeling I have put off watching the full version and am somehow saving the pleasure of it for a special time. Dear fellow addicts, you are the only ones to whom I could admit such a thing.
: Amy
Dear, dear Amy, the scene described occurs near the beginning of tape five. Do get the full tapes soon, dearest. The missing scenes are very short and technically not integral to the plot, but they are delightful. I watched P&P again when it was last rebroadcast on A&E (even though Ihave the full tape version- who was it that offered this up as a sign of addiction- I quite agree) and I was quite startled and really felt the loss of the missing scenes keenly, the scene changes felt so abrupt to me. When you do see the missing scenes, do let us know what you thought of them.
Cheryl
Posted by Donna on September 26, 1996 at 13:53:17:
: : If he were going to confront Miss Bingley in that manner he would have done so in the scene after
: : Lizzy tells him about infamous elopement.
: : If remember correctly, in that scene,he is abrupt with Ms. Bingley after she teases him about mourning the loss of Miss Bennet. He even shocks the Bingley and Georgiana by walking out
: : of the music room.
:
: That is the one scene, among the missing ones I have heard described, that I would most like to see. If I wanted to get just that part of the library's set, which tape would it be? Four or five? I have a sneaky feeling I have put off watching the full version and am somehow saving the pleasure of it for a special time. Dear fellow addicts, you are the only ones to whom I could admit such a thing.
: Amy
I am anxiously waiting to see this scene too. I thought the line "mourning the loss" was only said once in the movie. That being at Nfield when Jane and Lizzie were leaving.
After they all{Lizzie, Aunt, and Uncle} leave Pemberly Miss Bingley says how old Lizzie looks, he tells her off then he leaves the music room. Wrong or right. That is alot to leave out.
Donna,
P.S.Speaking of background noise or voices, after Lizzie is done singing and while she is talking to Georgiana,they are all
comparing her singing, you can barely hear Mr. Hursts say something like she doesn't sound like her sister. Of course they all burst out laughing.
On one tape you can hear him very clearly.
Donna,
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