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Posted by hat on September 25, 1996 at 02:38:30:
: Enjoyed your comments contrasting JA's novels with conventional romances. In addition, though, I think JA has survived because she not only writes so well, but is so witty and pokes such gentle fun at her characters. Speaking of her writing, it is really eye-opening to read some of her sentences carefully. One does not immediately realize how intricate they are because they are so very clear.
Yes, I agree. She does write with great humuor and
observation; and beautifully and clearly. I think I really
notice the latter by the way some phrases stick in my mind
because they _sound_ so good. There is something about the
rhythm in the way the words are written and said sometimes.
I guess Darcy's 2nd proposal, and the "We neither of us
perform to strangers" phrases would be just a couple of
examples. Its really noticeable too because people are
encouraged to write in a much less intricate way these
days.
Cheers,Hilary
Posted by Johanna on September 25, 1996 at 02:58:45:
: As some of you know, my family is away so I am enjoying guilt-free viewing. As I watched for the ____teenth time, I heard something that has always bothered me, but never knew whom to ask regarding this, but now I have found all of you, and someone here will have the answer to my inquiry. In the scene when Darcy is writing his infamous letter to Lizzy and he gets to the part where he writes "This Madam, is a faithful narrative of all my dealings with Mr. Wickham" there are what sounds to me to be screams in the background for the next several seconds (muted, to be sure, but there nonetheless.) The only explanation I can come up with is that it appears to be close to daybreak and it could be a rooster, I suppose, but if so it is a rooster in dire distress! Quick ladies, to the tapes! It happens near the beginning of tape four (but you already knew that, did you not?) Someone tell me I am not imagining this!
: Cheryl
I hate to be a party-pooper, but that's not the cry of a peacock. Additionally peacocks don't cry through the night. I'm not sure what it is, but I really think it's a dramatic element (sounds like some bird of prey to me). Don't be mad at me! I lived at a house in England that was loaded with the damn things! I think they are beautiful etc, but that wasn't the call I remember hearing for those years.
Johanna
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Posted by Lori T on September 25, 1996 at 06:04:03:
:
: : I would also like to get a hold of Mansfield Revisited as well as
: : a copy of the booklet with the alternative ending of Mansfield
: : Park, if any knows how?
: : Thanks for your help!!!
: There is an alternate ending to Mansfield Park? I knew there was one to Persuasion, but did not know of any others. Pray, tell me what happens? Fanny does not accept that scoundrel Henry Crawford, does she? Oh no! I hope I have not fired the first salvo in a renewal of the "Fanny Wars".
: Cheryl
There is a listing of sequels and continuations of Jane's
work at the below site. Good luck though because I have
been able to get a hold of any so far.
Link:
Posted by Amy on September 25, 1996 at 06:54:14:
: Can anyone tell how to get a hold of a copy of Pemberly Shades?
Try JA books. See FAQ
Posted by Amy on September 25, 1996 at 08:55:28:
I don't know how Cheryl or whomever will be editing this will want to put these if they are indeed generalized signs, but there are some taping and tape hoarding behaviors that I think are somewhat telltale:
Much as I wish to share and push, I won't let my best, commercial-free copy out of my hands.
I have an audio tape of the entire film for the car. Since the visuals are so embedded I don't need them to enjoy the story -- again.
I am tempted to reach for Lean Cuisine in the grocery store. (Those advertisers got their money's worth)
Amy
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Posted by Amy on September 25, 1996 at 09:01:18:
We'll see Enchanted April "together" and start talking about it on Sunday. It tied with P&P1, so let's just decide to do that one next, in two weeks. Look for virtual viewing updates at the bottom of the main page.
Amy
Link:
Posted by Jane on September 25, 1996 at 09:51:31:
Amy asks: And how does Lucy know she loves George? She herself says he rarely utters a word. Are we supposed to simply take it on faith that there is such a thing as animal attraction, or love at first sight, or soulmates who recognize each other on sight?
Amy, I think Jane Austen has spoiled us. Her characters fall in love in a way that we can believe in, maybe relate to if we're lucky. Bingley fell in love with Jane's looks straight off, but then there were all those conversations at every opportunity.... Marianne Dashwood seemed to fall in love at first sight with Willoughby, but then we got to see them getting to know each other, and it all made sense (for a while). Darcy and Elizabeth: what could make more sense? Maybe Lucy fell in love with the idea of George, as much as with George himself: she knew what his father told her about him, she heard him shouting his beliefs from the tree, she saw George's affection for his father.
Maybe we need to read a lot into the fainting scene. George is there when Lucy needs him, and he is honest with her about the blood on the postcards, not overly protective. Someone else might have just said they got dirty, or he couldn't find them.
And a scene like the kiss in the barley field---the romantic in me thinks it was wonderful, but the feminist in me has an objection to the way he grabs her.
Jane
P.S. Good work on the virtual viewing decision. I really wanted to do PP1, but I needed longer notice to see the whole thing (so I didn't vote---but I am a more responsible citizen in national elections).
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Posted by KATHY on September 25, 1996 at 10:30:16:
:
: : Cheryl:
: I do wonder, though, that it was not erased during the editing process. Or is the cry of peacocks a readily recognizable sound in England, and it is only we uncouth Americans who would be unawares?
: Indeed, it is a very common sound, and they deliberately added in all of those wildlife sounds on purpose. I've noticed that that is almost a trademark of British set-in-England film and video programs. I would not be at all surprised if they deliberately chose to add the peacock scream at that particular point to underscore Darcy's emotional turmoil.
: Joan, too
I feel so stupid. I always thought it was a rooster, to show that he had been up all night wrestling with his emotions. I do not have a book or video to varify that this much time passed before the letter is delivered. Kathy.
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Posted by Lorraine on September 25, 1996 at 10:44:55:
Another sound which appeared several times through the show
was ducks quacking - when the two young boys are fishing,
when Lizzy's looking out the "prospect" at Pemberley, and
a couple of other times.
Posted by Ann2 on September 25, 1996 at 11:35:48:
:
: Ann2 talked about Lizzy not being in control:
: >>I imagine she didn´t expect him to ask her, was quite confused when he did, and so without her usual pertness and quickness of mind, had to say yes to a man whom she had no wish to please.(Not consciously that is; after all she is only human...
: The "adaptation makes us see" that undercurrent of passion on both sides, doesn't it? It's certainly arguable, but I believe JA would have put in the same sexual tension had she lived in this time and wrote the screenplay herself.
: Amy
Yes it does and I know that stuff about the beholders eye, but I can not help thinking that Lizzie is not *just* trying to be teasing and unpleasant. I think she really wants to understand more of this man whose behavior is so unpredictable, and who keeps
staring at her and arguing with her as soon as he gets a chance of it. (But for that day at Netherfield when he had "began to feel his danger" and had decided to show her no attention at all. So that she would not start imagining things...) She is quite
amazed at first when Wickham tells his tale. Mind you she is eager to show *him* whos side she´s on. He must have been a womanizer.
But Darcy *is* a puzzlement!
best wishes Ann2
Posted by Amy on September 25, 1996 at 12:05:46:
:
: : No, there is no cure. Don't even bother to seek help.
: : This addiction is the sweetest thing I have done to my soul.
Right. None of us wants to kick it enitrely, like an alcoholic must swear right off. There is though, a limit. Some of us have watched it more than we want to. For us wallowing in a discussion of it tends to help. Of course, as others have said, you can become dependent on the great company here. And I dont' see anything so evil about that either. We have some pretty innocent addictions. Could be worse.
Amy
Posted by Amy on September 25, 1996 at 12:28:25:
I think you are right about being spoiled by Austen's ability to sink us deep into her characters to the point of identifying with them or falling in love with them.
So if that isn't the draw to Forster, what is it? He was an expert on the novel. Maybe it's the stories and the way they unfold that we like.
About being grabbed in the barley field? No, his dad was right, he shouldn't have without a clearer invitation. As women, feminists or not, we and Lucy can say no, as she did after the second grabbing at Windy Corner. But the thing is, she didn't mean no. Nobody in real life gets to interpret a no as a yes. But George isn't real; I will let him see into her heart and take what I know she wants to give. Note that even at the end of the film, it's still a game with them. She protests his "bothering" her while she is reading Freddie's letter. Yeah, right.
Amy
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Posted by Amy on September 25, 1996 at 13:28:53:
Ann2 added:
: You mix your everyday speech, especially when one of your nearest fellow addicts is present,
: with quotations like "I´m all astonishment". or "You know exactly what to think".
I do this with friends who know of my "problem." I do stop myself from blurting out these phrases in the grocery store or in places where it would not be understood -- usually. The other day I was feeling silly and slipped. The check at the market was being rough on a long loaf of Frnech bread and broke it nearly in two. I said, "It is of little matter, for I might have rendered it so myself on my return home." It just fell out without planning. Checker and bagger alike stared at me, then glanced at each other, eyes wide and eyebrow up. Feeling I had to explain, I said, "I guess I've been watching too much British TV." Then they laughed and seemd to understand.
Amy
When my
: vacation was about to start this july I found a note from another addict on my desk and it ended
: "Don´t get too brown and coarse this summer!".
: Whenever the building of Rosings is sightable your eyes seek out the windows to Darcy´s room, it`s
: on the right wing(if someone out there is not so deep in it as I am.
: I also have been very close to making plans of the rooms, in particular at Lucas Lodge where the Darcy
: looks and moves are most significant. That first one is interesting, rather bold and perhaps the only
: one where you get a hint of what he was like womanwise before getting bewitched.
: Sorry, my thoughts carried me away. I had better stop, this is not even my lucheon hour, i am supposed to
: do some work here.
: Ann2
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Posted by Amy on September 25, 1996 at 13:45:39:
: I also have been very close to making plans of the rooms, in particular at Lucas Lodge where the Darcy
: looks and moves are most significant.
Well if you ever get really crazy, do the drawings on the computer and I will put them up here.
Amy
Posted by Amy on September 25, 1996 at 13:48:02:
One more, then I really have to get away from this.
Ever find yourself wishing your home had a name? So that you could say things like, "Then we shall return to Grandinglington," instead of "Then, we'll go home."
Amy
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Posted by The Mysterious H.C. on September 25, 1996 at 14:51:58:
: : I would also like to get a hold of Mansfield Revisited as well as
: : a copy of the booklet with the alternative ending of Mansfield
: : Park, if any knows how?
: There is an alternate ending to Mansfield Park? I knew there was one to Persuasion, but did not know of any others. Pray, tell me what happens? Fanny does not accept that scoundrel Henry Crawford, does she? Oh no! I hope I have not fired the first salvo in a renewal of the "Fanny Wars".
Yes, the Crawfords triumph in this ending. I've never seen
it myself, and alkl the information I have on it is from Edith Lank.
Below is the link to the list of Austen sequels, but there's no guarantee that any of them are currently in print.
Link:
Posted by Raphael on September 25, 1996 at 14:56:21:
: Seeking to be the real non-deluded Lizzy in all my dealings.
: Amy
I am sure that, despite your earnest desire, you take particular
delight in professing opinions which are not your own. But never
fear, you do not frighten me.
You are most fortunate to be blessed with merely trying to make
sense of one individual. I am left to choose whether -- upon
entering a room -- it would not be more befitting my addiction
to immediately progress to a window, making sure I stood staring
outside with the utter preoccupation of a brooding, insular being,
or rather instead sit and stare at my acquaintances with an earnest,
honest, and open countenance.
Indeed, I am rather developing a severe sort of discomfort inside me
as to which mode of deport to emulate. Should I, on the one hand, endeavor
to think ill of every one I meet, or should I instead eagerly desire
to think well of every body? Earnest openness or mysterious insolence?
I hear so many conflicting opinions on the subject as to not know what
to think.
&tc, &tc,
Raphael
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Posted by Raphael on September 25, 1996 at 15:06:27:
: I am so relieved! This has bothered me from my first viewing! I had visions of Lady Catherine abusing Mr. Collins (much to his secret delight) or of something equally unsavory to produce such horrid sounds. I do wonder, though, that it was not erased during the editing process. Or is the cry of peacocks a readily recognizable sound in England, and it is only we uncouth Americans who would be unawares? Thank you, thank you Raphael and Joan, too for relieving my mind. I shall have to watch the tapes again and see if I am able listen to the cries and picture the peacocks and remain unperturbed. (Gracious, what are the odds of my watching the tapes AGAIN?)
: Cheryl
Rather than not being deleted during the editing process, it is
highly likely that it was *inserted* in post-production. Sound
design/editing is a mysterious and unusual calling, it's really
quite difficult and requires the attitude of a devotional soul.
These sounds are obviously an attempt to involve more of your
senses in the impression of *place*, above and beyond the duties
of merely character and plot. It's exquisite, I love it.
A better, even more successful example of the beauty of sound
design comes from Sense and Sensibility. If you pay careful
attention to uncomfortable scenes between Miss Dashwood and Mr.
Ferrars in London, you'll make out such sounds as a ticking clock,
and muffled voices in the distance, perhaps the clicking of hooves
in the cobbled street without. Absolutely gorgeuous work.
Interestingly enough, sound editors and film editors both confess
that they are most successful when the audience doesn't realize
that they're even there, i.e. that their job is best when it is most
invisible!
Cordially,
Raphael
Posted by Raphael on September 25, 1996 at 15:13:36:
: I hate to be a party-pooper, but that's not the cry of a peacock. Additionally peacocks don't cry through the night. I'm not sure what it is, but I really think it's a dramatic element (sounds like some bird of prey to me). Don't be mad at me! I lived at a house in England that was loaded with the damn things! I think they are beautiful etc, but that wasn't the call I remember hearing for those years.
: Johanna
Indeed. This is most vexing, though I think you noticed that
I covered my tracks by saying I did not know whether they would
be likely to produce their calls after dark. It sounds -- to
me -- very similar to the screaming cry of a peacock, but then,
if they are asleep at the time, it is hardly likely. Please don't
feel bad -- you should hardly be reproached for enligtening one
operating under incorrect guesses.
I don't imagine that it is a bird of prey. It is almost definitely
not an owl (though owls are audible in other scenes). I live in an
area inhabited by both hawks and owls, and neither produce such a
noise. Hawks have the most sonorous, captivating call I've ever heard.
It's touching, very indicative of a lonely life. It's rather depressing,
actually, the emotion in it. But it's nothing like the wretched scream
we hear here.
Is there an expert amongst our party who might enlighten us as to the
ways of mysterious evening creatures who scream like Mrs. Bennett?
&tc,
Raphael
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Posted by The Mysterious H.C. on September 25, 1996 at 15:13:47:
: Henry now has it as one of the illustrations for the P&P hypertext as a counterpoint to the Brock drawings. At the Assembly Rooms Darcy is shown with a pot belly. That was the Victorian ideal of an attractive guy? I don't get it.
Pot-bellied?!? Ye're daft, 'ooman! The front of Darcy's tailcoat, which is unbuttoned, has fallen slightly forward and to the side....
Link:
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