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Posted by Amy on September 21, 1996 at 23:20:02:
Lisa's Netherfield Ball Play-by-Play re- reposted as requested.
Amy
Link:
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on September 21, 1996 at 23:22:21:
: Hello!
: (I am new to this, so I am not sure if I am sending this correctly) Does anybody else who read the book, thinks it's dissapointing that they ommited al the scenes between Mr Bennett's blessing and the wedding. I fwlt it was an especial pity to miss Mrs Bennett's reaction. Or does it exist on the video version? (I hope I am not talking about a subject that has already been beaten to death).
: P.S. Thanks for this page-I've been searching for something like this. I usually try to break myself of my habits, but this addiction is unshakable.
:
There is some discussion of this a bit further down this page.
As for the addiction, I know what you mean. I was almost cured
when I discovered this page. I'm hooked again.
Ann
Follow Ups:
Posted by Dolores on September 21, 1996 at 23:23:30:
:
: : Joan,too:
: I purchased the video because I *hoped* that I could "blame" A&E for cutting it ranther than Davies for omitting it, but nothing related to that issue had been cut by A&E. It could/should have happened when Lizzie was re-reading the letter up in her bedroom at Hunsford, but that scene leaves her still thinking Darcy "insufferable!". In Chapter 36 Lizzie spends the entire chapter berating herself over this, but P&P2 does not show it.
: Joan, too
I wonder if Davies can definitely be blamed either. I'm sure there were filmed scenes that never made it into the final cut. If you have the Making of PP book you'll see a picture of Lizzie, Darcy, Bingley and Jane on the "second proposal" walk where positions are reversed. Jane and Bingley are behind Lizzie and Darcy, each couple (well, except Darcy) is facing the camera. Also, I think the still of a stern-looking Darcy at the end of episode 5 was a frame from a filmed version of Darcy's confrontation with Wickham and Lydia at their flat in London. The background of the shot appears to me to be the fireplace in their London room. I may be mistaken, because the background is not in focus.
Besides, he may have written a number of scenes that were never even filmed because of time or money considerations.
Dolores
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on September 21, 1996 at 23:33:20:
:
: : Ann
: : I found the Milne version in a resale book store. It is a first edition published in 1936 in London by Chatto & Windus. The scene where they meet at Pemberley is increadably sweet in the play.
: *Very* sweet - but not particularly "in character" for either D or E. Darcy's composure in this scene is a *long* way from Austen's description:
: "he repeated his enquiries as to the time of her having left Longbourn, and of her stay in Derbyshire, so often and in so hurried a way, as plainly spoke the distraction of his thoughts. At length every idea seemed to fail him; and, after standing a few moments without saying a word, he suddenly recollected himself and took leave.
: : Darcy-
: : I also remember that I once invited you to come.
: Did this ever happen in any of the other versions, including the book? (If so, somehow it completely escaped my notice!)
: Joan, too
No it doesn't happen in any of the other versions. It is all Milne.
In general Milne has Darcy being much more amiable than any of
the other versions--including Austen's.
Ann
Posted by Dolores on September 21, 1996 at 23:40:26:
Thanks.
Posted by Ann on September 22, 1996 at 00:17:55:
In the Milne version this takes place at the Netherfield Ball.
It doesn't take place at all in Austen.
(Bingley is stretched out on a chair, Darcy standing over him)
Darcy-
Well, Charles?
Bingley (uneasily)-
How do you mean--well? You stand over me like a father, a
governess and a guardian angel rolled into one, and say
"Well?" I don't like you. Go away.
Darcy-
If I consulted my own feelings--
Bingley-
You would go away. I know. You hate dancing. You have told
me so. I hate a man who comes to a ball, and then tells
everybody how much more rational it would be if conversation
and not dancing were the order of the day.
Darcy-
Well, so it would be.
Bingley-
Much more rational, but not near so much like a ball. As for
me, I like dancing, I like my company--except just at the
moment--and I propose to go on enjoying myself.
Darcy (smiling)-
And all this because I said, "Well, Charles?"
Bingley (awkwardly, after a silence).
Well, Darcy?
Darcy-
Nothing. Go on enjoying yourself. Go on--amusing yourself.
But do not--commit yourself.
Bingley (earnestly)-
I love her, Darcy, upon my soul I do. She is the loveliest
creature I ever set eyes upon. She is good, she is amiable,
she is clever--by which I mean clever enough for me--and, in
short, she has everything which I should want a young woman
to have.
Darcy-
Including a mother.
Bingley-
I cannot spend my life looking only at orphans. It is true
she has a mother, but I do not blame her for it. In my
fair-minded way I have always refused to blame you for your
aunt.
Darcy (a little haughtily)-
Have you anything against Lady Catherine?
Bingley-
Nothing, except that I find her intolerable.
Darcy-
Is that all? Almost everybody is intolerable at one time or
another. If you prefer it so, I will promise that you shall
never see my aunt again. Can Miss Bennet promise you that you
will never see her mother again?
Bingley-
What's the matter with her mother?
Darcy-
Oh, Charles!
Bingley-
I am not asking her to live with me.
Darcy-
You do not need to. She has already invited herself.
Bingley-
Come, Darcy, you have no right to say that.
Darcy-
Every right. She was telling me herself just now.
Bingley-
That she was going to live with me?
Darcy-
In so many words. You do not know perhaps that Longbourn is
entailed away from the daughters, so that when Mr. Bennet
dies Mrs. Bennet and her family must find some new home--as,
for instance, Netherfield.
Bingley-
How do you know all these things?
Darcy-
People confide in me, Charles.
Bingley (examining him carefully)-
There must be something I have overlooked in your manner which
endears you to them. It seems odd.
Darcy-
It is merely a local form of soliloquy such as one could make
to the roof of a theatre without finding it particularly
endearing. The whole neighborhood suffers from it. I can tell
you, for instance, that Mr. Collins--you know Mr. Collins?
Bingley-
Mr. Collins!
Darcy-
Is Miss Bennet's cousin, is next in the entail, and is come
to Longbourn in order to marry her.
Bingley-
That fellow marry her?
Darcy-
It is his design.
Bingley-
But not hers.
Darcy-
Her mother's: to marry her to you or to him or to another,
provided she marries somebody who can support them all.
Bingley-
I will not believe it of her. She never could marry that parson
fellow. Nobody could marry that parson fellow. If her mother
is going to force her into the marriage, then it is my duty
to save her from it. (Pleased with this idea.) There, Darcy.
You are all for duty. So am I. We will save Miss Bennet.
Darcy-
You have a duty to yourself also; to your sister; to your
friends. Charles, Charles, you cannot marry into this family.
I say nothing of that inferiority of position, the tradesman
uncle, the attorney, the whole social background of Miss Bennet's
connections; and now this parson fellow; but you must have
seen for yourself the total want of propriety so uniformly
betrayed by the mother and the three younger sisters. How
can you live with that?
Bingley-
And what of my own propriety, if I draw back now? Except for
the actual words, I have as good as offered myself to Miss
Bennet, and I swear to you, Darcy, as good as been accepted.
Darcy-
No, no, that is where you are wrong. I have watched her with
you: her look, her manners, her open, cheerful behavior,
placid, unruffled, just as it has been in the company of any
other man. That is not love, Charles, I pledge you my word.
Bingley (after a depressed silence)-
It is true I know no reason why she should love me. I am a
very ordinary fellow, not brilliant like you. I have a deal
to say, none of it very clever; but cheerful, and it makes a
noise, and I think how well we are getting on together; and
all the time I am but getting on well with myself, and she is
looking on kindly and smiling sweetly and thinking perhaps of
some other man....What do you want me to do?
Darcy-
Come to London with me to-morrow--
Bingley-
I was coming. I told her.
Darcy-
And stay with me--
Bingley-
Three short days, I said. We had a joke about that....I mean,
I had a joke.
Darcy-
Stay with me until--
Bingley-
Until she has married this parson fellow or somebody. Somebody
who hasn't got a friend to stand over him, and--no, I didn't
mean that. You're a good friend, Darcy, and I expect you're right.
(Explosively) But damme, it isn't friendly to be always right.
(end)
--A.A.Milne
Ann
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on September 22, 1996 at 00:27:30:
This also takes place at the Netherfield ball, immediately
after the scene with Darcy and Bingley. It is an amalgamation
of several scenes, with lines pulled in from all over the
place, much of it straight from JA, but some is all Milne.
Darcy comes off as being much more in love with her, and
more willing to let her know it, than in Austen.
(Elizabeth and Darcy are on the sofa together.)
Elizabeth-
Now it is your turn to say something, Mr. Darcy. I talked
about the dance, and you ought to make some kind of remark
about the size of the room or the number of couples.
Darcy (smiling)-
Whatever you wish me to say shall be said.
Elizabeth-
Very well, that will do for the present. Perhaps by and by I
may observe that private dances are pleasanter than public
ones; but now we may be silent for a little.
Darcy-
Do you talk by rule, then, when you are dancing?
Elizabeth-
Sometimes. One must talk a little, you know; it would look
odd to be entirely silent for half an hour together. An yet,
for the advantage of some, conversation ought to be arranged
so that they may have as little trouble as possible.
Darcy-
Are you consulting your own feelings in the present case, or
gratifying mine?
Elizabeth (solemnly)-
Both. For I have always seen a great similarity in the turn
of our minds. We are each of an unsocial, taciturn disposition,
unwilling to speak until we can say something that will amaze
the whole room, and be handed down to posterity as a proverb.
Darcy-
That is no very striking resemblance of your own character.
How near it may be to mine I cannot say. You think it a
faithful portrait undoubtedly.
Elizabeth-
No, no, I must not decide on my own performance.
Darcy-
Nor I on my own picture. So if I am to praise your skill as
a painter, you must exercise it on someone else. Let us say
Mr. Bingley. Give me Bingley in a line.
Elizabeth (after a pause)-
It would be a great responsibility to be married to him.
Darcy-
To be married to anybody is, I should suppose, a
responsibility.
Elizabeth-
But one which falls to the husband as a rule.
Darcy-
Yes, you seem to have studied his character sufficiently well.
Elizabeth-
Is there anything else one half so amusing as studying other
people?
Darcy-
The country, I imagine, supplies few subjects worthy of your
talent. In the country you move in a very confined and
unvarying society.
Elizabeth-
Yes, but people themselves alter so much that there is
something new to be observed in them for ever.
Darcy-
Let us hope, then, that you have a long life in front of you,
for it certainly seems as if it will be an amusing one. Will
your husband also alter from day to day, or will he be the one
constant in your ever-changing world?
Elizabeth-
Constant in affection, I hope; but equally I hope that each
day will reveal some new attribute in him to deepen my
affection.
Darcy-
And to serve you as a source of amusement?
Elizabeth-
If he loves me, he will not mind my laughing him occasionally.
Darcy-
The wisest and best of men--nay, the wisest and best of their
actions--may be rendered ridiculous by a person whose first
object is a joke.
Elizabeth-
Certainly there are such people, but I hope I am not one of
them. I hope I never ridicule what is wise and good. Follies
and nonsense, whims and inconsistencies, do divert me, I own,
and I laugh at them whenever I can. Have you none of them
yourself?
Darcy-
It has been the study of my life to avoid those weaknesses
which expose one to ridicule.
Elizabeth-
Such as vanity and pride?
Darcy-
Vanity is a weakness indeed, but pride--where there is a
real superiority of mind, pride will be always under good
regulation.
Elizabeth-
If pride is a virtue, then I must acquit you of every fault.
Darcy-
I have faults enough. My temper is too little yielding, I
cannot forget the follies and vices of others as soon as I
ought. My good opinion once lost is lost forever.
Elizabeth-
That is a failing indeed. Implacable resentment is a shade in
a character. But you have chosen your fault well--I cannot
laugh at it. You are safe from me. I cannot laugh at a man
whose habit is to hate everybody.
Darcy-
And yours to misunderstand them willfully.
Elizabeth-
I wouldn't do that; indeed, I would not. (After a pause.)
You say that your good opinion once lost is lost forever. You
are very cautious before you let it be forfeited?
Darcy-
I am.
Elizabeth-
And never allow yourself to be blinded by prejudice?
Darcy-
I hope not.
Elizabeth-
Those who never change their opinion ought to be secure of
judging properly first.
Darcy-
Are you at work on my character again?
Elizabeth (shaking her head)-
I do not get on with it at all. I hear such different accounts
of you as puzzle me exceedingly.
Darcy-
That may well be. And I would beg you therefore to put my
portrait by; for there is reason to fear that, at the moment,
the picture would reflect no credit on either of us.
Elizabeth (boldly)-
You refer to Mr. Wickham, do you not?
Darcy-
Only in as far as you were referring to Mr. Wickham.
Elizabeth-
We have all found him very charming.
Darcy-
So I supposed. Mr. Wickham is blessed with such happy manners
as must ensure his making friends. Whether he be equally
capable of retaining them is less certain.
Elizabeth (warmly)-
He has been so unlucky as to lose your friendship in a manner
which he is likely to suffer from all his life.
Darcy-
He seems to have gained yours in its place, which should be
compensation enough for any man.
Elizabeth-
Oh, you are hateful!
Darcy-
I mean it sincerely. For the first time in my life I envy him.
Elizabeth-
Can you defend your conduct to him?
Darcy (haughtily)-
To my friends, yes; but they do not require it of me.
(He stands and offers her his arm)
(end)
Follow Ups:
Posted by Joan, too on September 22, 1996 at 01:25:34:
: Dolores:
: I wonder if Davies can definitely be blamed either. I'm sure there were filmed scenes that never made it into the final cut. If you have the Making of PP book you'll see a picture of Lizzie, Darcy, Bingley and Jane on the "second proposal" walk where positions are reversed. Jane and Bingley are behind Lizzie and Darcy, each couple (well, except Darcy) is facing the camera.
Well, if you check out the photos at the top right of pages 71 and 103, you'll notice that those shots have been printed backwards - so the left is on the right and vicce vera - someone put the negative in wrong side up. I did notice that proposal #2 shot, but many (if not all) of the pictures in the book were done from still photos rather than the film frames, and were posed or candid.
: Also, I think the still of a stern-looking Darcy at the end of episode 5 was a frame from a filmed version of Darcy's confrontation with Wickham and Lydia at their flat in London. The background of the shot appears to me to be the fireplace in their London room. I may be mistaken, because the background is not in focus.
Could be, but many of the "vision" shots were filmed specifically for that purpose - eg: the one where Wickham appears to be thinking of Lydia when he says that there is one woman from whom he will be loath to part.
: Besides, he may have written a number of scenes that were never even filmed because of time or money considerations.
You believe that, Jane er... Dolores, if it gives you comfort. ;-) Or possibly edited out later - but if so, those were grevious errors!
Joan, too
Posted by Joan, too on September 22, 1996 at 01:46:38:
: Ann:
: It is an amalgamation of several scenes, with lines pulled in from all over the place, much of it straight from JA, but some is all Milne. Darcy comes off as being much more in love with her, and more willing to let her know it, than in Austen.
Amazing! Would it be correct to assume, then, that Milne has eliminated all of those other scenes from which the dialog is "borrowed"? If this is to be a stage play, a LOT of condensing would be necessary, both of dialog and of scenery. In fact, I think it would be impossible to create a truly faithful-to the-concept-of-the-original adaptation as a stage play. Wonder what the one that Milne discovered was already in performance in New York is like?
Joan, too
Follow Ups:
Posted by DonnaT on September 22, 1996 at 02:28:44:
: I think that most library systems also carry this version. I know that mine does.
: Stefanie
I have been following this site for a couple of weeks and finallly have to stop being a silent addictee. I saw a copy of P & P 1 at a store called Best Buy for $25. I of course have my own copy taped from the PBS years ago, have been addicted to P & P that long
Posted by DonnaT on September 22, 1996 at 02:30:31:
: I think that most library systems also carry this version. I know that mine does.
: Stefanie
I have been following this site for a couple of weeks and finallly have to stop being a silent addictee. I saw a copy of P & P 1 at a store called Best Buy for $25. I of course have my own copy taped from the PBS years ago, have been addicted to P & P that long
Follow Ups:
Posted by Johanna on September 22, 1996 at 02:57:45:
: : Darcy-
: : I also remember that I once invited you to come.
: Did this ever happen in any of the other versions, including the book? (If so, somehow it completely escaped my notice!)
: Joan, too
M-a-a-a-a-y-b-e-e-e-e it's an allusion to his prior proposal of marriage, ie she would come to Pemberley to live with him.
Johanna
p.s. I much prefer Pooh to Austen when rendered by Milne.
Tiddly-pum!
Follow Ups:
Posted by Johanna on September 22, 1996 at 03:23:30:
: : : They must have messed up the filming to the first few
: : : measures of the dance, because if you look closely at Jane
: : : before the dance starts she is nodding her head--in slow motion!
: : : They must not have filmed enough in real time, so they had to
: : : fudge it.
: : : Ann
Yes, I noticed this, too, and think that the director liked the pensive look coupled with the downcast face. I also am inclined to believe that this was discovered in post (production), and to accomodate the shot, they slow-mo'ed it. It's hard to say. I am making complete supposition, I am not attempting to be an expert in TV production. I think a 5 month schedule to shoot and so many complex scenes in the mix (the dance scene has _so_ many different camera angles and to make it all blend seamlessly in god-alone-knows-how-many-takes is what makes a director of photography an artist - I could digress about the light, the dolly shot behind the bystanders etc) that maybe that moment wasn't held as long as the director wanted and later when he was working with the editor he got what he wanted. It's a shot that looks wrong only in a 2nd veiwing, IMO, because the strength of Jennifer Ehle's performance draws ones eye to her, not to Jane sweetly nodding her head. (Was she in character? is my next question!)
Sorry for any errors and run-ons, I just got home from shooting a wedding reception (rather toney - Austen is an absolute classic because women to this day marry into wealth with the same vigor as any Mrs. Bennet could muster!)
Johanna
Posted by Joan, too on September 22, 1996 at 04:04:32:
: : : Darcy-
: : : I also remember that I once invited you to come.
: : Did this ever happen in any of the other versions, including the book? (If so, somehow it completely escaped my notice!)
: : Joan, too
: M-a-a-a-a-y-b-e-e-e-e it's an allusion to his prior proposal of marriage, ie she would come to Pemberley to live with him.
: Johanna
But that's a b-i-i--i-i-i-i-ig stretch when replies with "but that was before..." ;-)
:Tiddly-pum!
Amen!
Joan, too
Posted by Amy on September 22, 1996 at 07:19:04:
Cheryl and Dolores:
I have not counted your remarks as votes for A Month in the Country? Should I?
: : Cheryl
: : How about "A Month In the Country?" When was it made?
>>Dolores:
>>It's now one of my favorite films... gentle, understated,
Amy
Follow Ups:
Posted by Amy on September 22, 1996 at 07:34:21:
PH asked:: Please tell me what you thought of The Advocate. I couldn't
: get past the video cover. It looked a little too racy for
: me. Thanx
I was so disappointed. I found the sex gratuitous. Maybe that's what poeple did all the time in the middle ages. If you see the Virgin Spring or hte Name of the Rose, that's what you would be inclined to believe.
I like late middle age and renaissance stuff. I wish something good would come out.
Amy
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on September 22, 1996 at 10:30:46:
:
: : Ann:
: : It is an amalgamation of several scenes, with lines pulled in from all over the place, much of it straight from JA, but some is all Milne. Darcy comes off as being much more in love with her, and more willing to let her know it, than in Austen.
: Amazing! Would it be correct to assume, then, that Milne has eliminated all of those other scenes from which the dialog is "borrowed"? If this is to be a stage play, a LOT of condensing would be necessary, both of dialog and of scenery. In fact, I think it would be impossible to create a truly faithful-to the-concept-of-the-original adaptation as a stage play. Wonder what the one that Milne discovered was already in performance in New York is like?
: Joan, too
There is lots of fudging on the scenes. There is actually no
Netherfield ball, instead there is a second assembly ball. That
of course saves a set. The four scenes take place at Longbourn,
where we hear all about Bingley and Mr. Collins' coming to
town, then the first assembly ball, which runs much like the
first ball in the book but with the addition of the dialogue
between Wickham and Lizzy which in the book takes place at Mrs.
Phillips', the third scene is back at Longbourn and is mainly
Mr. Collins' proposal, then back to the ball with the dialogue
frome More Milne 1&2 and also Charlotte coming on to Mr. Collins.
Act II takes the story to Hunsford and Rosings. Then Act III
contains a short scene at Pemberley then back to Longbourn
after Lydia runs off.
Ann
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on September 22, 1996 at 10:34:49:
: : : Darcy-
: : : I also remember that I once invited you to come.
: : Did this ever happen in any of the other versions, including the book? (If so, somehow it completely escaped my notice!)
: : Joan, too
: M-a-a-a-a-y-b-e-e-e-e it's an allusion to his prior proposal of marriage, ie she would come to Pemberley to live with him.
: Johanna
: p.s. I much prefer Pooh to Austen when rendered by Milne.
: Tiddly-pum!
In the Milne version Elizabeth mentions to Darcy at one of the
balls that she will be in Derbyshire in the summer, and he says
he hopes that, if she has time, she might stop and see Pemberley.
So, in this version he does actually ask her to come, but it
is not in the book.
Ann
Follow Ups:
Posted by Tommye on September 22, 1996 at 12:44:02:
: : Hello!
: : (I am new to this, so I am not sure if I am sending this correctly) Does anybody else who read the book, thinks it's dissapointing that they ommited al the scenes between Mr Bennett's blessing and the wedding. I fwlt it was an especial pity to miss Mrs Bennett's reaction. Or does it exist on the video version? (I hope I am not talking about a subject that has already been beaten to death).
:
Hi! It seems to me that P&P1 stretched out the last conversation between Mr. Darcy and Lizzy, where she grilled him about his feelings and actions, even teased him a little. But, I would have loved to have seen more--even seeing her at Pemberly after the wedding, helping in the training of Miss Darcy, etc.
Tommye
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