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Posted by Joan, too on September 21, 1996 at 18:06:02:
: : Hat:
: : < but I'm inclined to think its mostly accute shyness (because he hadn't taken the trouble : to practise!)>
: Sarah:
: Do ya'll think Darcy was REALLY a shy person? I thought he was just copping out with a lame excuse for his snobby behavior. We don't get to see him in a variety of situations, so it is difficult to discern between shyness/extreme snobbiness.
I think he was shy in the sense that he led quite a restricted "social" life and did have little experience conversing with strangers. He restricted his interactions to people of similar wealth and circumstance, of whom, in any society, there are relatively few.
When (during Mrs. Bennet's visit to Netherfiled while Jane was ill) Bingley commented on how well he enjoyed life in the country, and Darcy responded, asking whether Bingley didn't find the society too confined and unvarying for his taste. Mrs. Bennet's protestation that she would have them know that they dined with FOUR-AND-TWENTY families brought on uncontrollable snickering from Caroline and Louisa - implying that it was not quantity that was important, but quality. Darcy could find very few people in Hertfordshire with whom he would even *consider* socialzing - and the remainder of the population did not merit his attention.
(In Darcy's case, as one of the mose elligible "catches" in the land there was probably some justification for his reluctance to socialize with strangers, most of whom would probably be cultivating his acquaintance with the specific idea of marrying off some member of their family.)
: Sarah:
: His strong personality and presence do not support the shyness route for me. Remember Col Fitzwilliam tells Lizzie how Darcy is "lively enough in other places, but gets very quiet when they come to Kent?" Maybe his aversion to his all knowing aunt and the horrible thought of his impending marriage the the beaten down Anne is the cause for this.
Yes, he did seem to be lively enough among his own (chosen) circle of friends, but had he not been related to Lady C, I believe that he never would have *chosen* to visit her. His visits to Rosings were made out of duty, but there was nothing there to attract him.
confined and restrictive for your taste?
quantity not quality
we seldom attend St. James assemblies
: Sarah:
: When I think of shyness, I do not think of a man who behaves in such a forward manner in general - asking a woman to dance who he knows may be the one most likely to refuse him.
Ah, but he *doesn't* know that she is likely to refuse him. He knows that he is the most elligible man in the room, and assumes that he would be *honoring* anyone with whom he chose to dance, and in that day and age, he would not be incorrect in making that assumption. (By his own admission: "I was spoilt by my parents, who thought good themselves, (my father particularly, all that was benevolent and amiable,) allowed, encouraged, almost taught me to be selfish and overbearing, to care for none beyond my own family circle, to think meanly of all the rest of the world, to wish at least to think meanly of their sense and worth compared to my own.") And he does not know that she overheard his remarks about her at the Meryton assembly, or that Wickham has been lying to Lizzie about him.
: Sarah:
: I'm sure we all know people who could care less how their boorish and rude bahavior effects others, but for Darcy, it just took Elizabeth to change his ugly ways!
...or even to make him realize that his behavior *was* boorish and rude - before Lizzie refuses him, he has had no experience in his life capable of showing him that.
Joan, too
Posted by Joan, too on September 21, 1996 at 18:18:49:
: : Ann 2:
: : But what do you think of" her trying to sketch his character"? [snip] And is it not amazing that she admits it openly?
I don't think so - as she said to him herself in Chapter 60, "my behavior to you was at least always bordering on the uncivil, and I never spoke to you without rather wishing to give you pain than not." She has been so prejudiced against him by her first (though in some resepcts inaccurate) impressions that she has no wish to do anything that might further the acquaintence in any way.
Joan, too
Posted by Amy on September 21, 1996 at 18:32:55:
Stefanie said:
>> I think that most library systems also carry this version. I know that mine does.
And Tomeye said:
>>PP1 can be purchased for $25 from "Saturday Matinee" movie store chain, usually in the malls. If they can get it, I'm sure Blockbuster and the others can, too.
Sheesh. As Emma might say, "This democracy nonsense can be so tiresome!"
So what's the thrust? Are you two just pointing out that P&P1 can be had if one wants to have it? Or are you voting for it/advocating it be kept as a nomination? Want to keep it in, and if it gets picked, help the others with suggestions about where to find it?
Amy
Follow Ups:
Posted by PH on September 21, 1996 at 18:35:48:
: Hat:
: I would go for a virtual view of Month in the Country, and plan to see The English Patient and Nostromous. I hated the Advocate and liked Valmont, but not enough to see it mroe than once a decade. But the very best place to talk Colin work is the Firthlist.
: I will post something tonight or tomorrow about continuing to do the ARWAV-type digression.
: Amy
Please tell me what you thought of The Advocate. I couldn't
get past the video cover. It looked a little too racy for
me. Thanx
Posted by Raphael on September 21, 1996 at 18:42:04:
: Call Northside 777 can't remember this one. I know I've seen most of them
: Rear Window, Vertigo,The Man Who Knew Too Much, and even the westerns Cheyenne
: Social with Henry Fonda and I love Harvey. I have a movie triva list book but its an old version
: 1984-85 it doesn't give enough information about Call Northside 777.Henry Fonda excellent,Carey Grant to
: name a few. To Kill a Mockingbird love this one. Great movie I could see Colin doing this part
: Atticus don't think I spelled the name right. This was one of the most perfect movies. I sure someone
: will want to remake this someday. "I love old movies" I could go on and on and on. So I will cast my
: vote due to avaiablity Enchanted April.
: Donna
You may wish to look it up at the Internet Movie Database. I'm
sure they have information on it. Look up "James Stewart" and
go from there. Released in 1948, I believe. Excellent drama,
hardly constrained by the pushy patriotism of the day. It shows
the justice system and police corruption through the eyes of a
very cynical news reporter (Stewart) who gets interested despite
himself about a mother who's advertising in the paper to pay
thousands of dollars as a reward for any information leading to
the proof that her son, serving twenty+ in jail, is wrongly
accused, which he is (whew! complicated). Wonderful growth of
Stewart's character and some truly marvelous acting. I would
urge you very much to rent it, especially if you're a fan of his.
Cordially,
Raphael
Posted by Sandra McClarty on September 21, 1996 at 18:42:37:
I would love to know more about Mr. Firth. I noticed a list of other
movies he has played in, but found nothing more. What is his
personal life? Is he as popular with just the PBS fans; does he
do London theatre? Is he married, wealthy, what is his personality
really like? Darcy's character is so complete, I cannot imagine
he is only acting. What are his professional goals? Where was he
schooled? Sandra McClarty
Follow Ups:
Posted by Sarah on September 21, 1996 at 18:51:05:
: : In vain have I struggled. It will not do. My feelings will
: : not be repressed. You must allow me to tell you how ardently
: : I admire and love P&P2. I, too, am hopelessly addicted, and
: : would post numbers very similar to Tommye's were it not for the
: : guilt and shame such numbers would oblige me to feel. My
: : addiction has even lead me to repeated viewings alone in secret
: : lest scenes arise unpleasant towards more than myself ("you're
: : not watching that AGAIN?)
: : I get my daily fix of Jane Austen by being an avid lurker of
: : Austen-L, but my longing for more Darcy and Elizabeth was not
: : satisfied until I stumbled on this BB a few days ago. Finally,
: : people who know and understand what I am going through! But,
: : like Tommye, I do not desire a cure, but an overdose (is such
: : a thing possible?) Pray, tell me, is there an archives for
: : this BB? I do not wish bring up topics that have been thoroughly
: : hashed out before I found all you kindred spirits.
: : Cheryl
: Thank you, Cheryl, for your note! For a while, I was thinking I was the ONLY ONE! Everyone was intellectualizing so; they didn't seem to be connecting. I admit, too, that (even last night) I watched the last 1 and 1/3 hours again, after having also watched it the day before. Yes, I conceal the fact from family members.!
It is too bad we do not have some of the original confessions available in archives...so many expressions just like yours, Tommye and Cheryl!!! Arnessa had one that was quite an accurate description for so many of us - compelling and true in its confession. Someone (may have been Arnessa, i can't remember) talked of carrying extra copies with her pushing it off on anyone she could!! (thus also lableing her a PUSHER!!!) I know we have all watched in private, hoping not to be caught and confronted with the "AGAIN" statement!!! Never fear, as much intellectualizing as you may sense here, all are emotional addicts in the sickest sense! (I hope I do not offend any fellow addicts......
Posted by Raphael on September 21, 1996 at 18:55:02:
1) Name
- Raphael Tehan
2) Occupation
- student, (screenwriter, independent musicologist)
3) When you first saw P&P2
- First A&E airing (Jan. 1996?)
4) How did you find out about it?
- excessive advertisements and previews!
5) What interested you in seeing it?
- I am always a fan of period mini-series by BBC and others, and
had so very much enjoyed Martin Chuzzlewit, Middlemarch (despite flaws),
and others. I wouldn't have missed this one for the world!
6) Have you read the original novel?
- Of course.
7) If so, before or after seeing the movie?
- After. In fact, after seeing it twice.
8) Favorite character(s) (other than Lizzy or Darcy-as liking them goes without saying.)
- Mr. Bennett, Maria Lucas (so excessively dingy!)
9) Favorite scene/sequence
- Netherfield dance Pavane.
10) Most awkward scene to watch (or not watch because you feel so embarrassed for the characters involved)
-the sermon at the end. Isn't that a little heavy-handed for such a
happy occasion?
11) Other Austen films viewed
- Sense and Sensibility, Persuasion.
12) Anything else you would like to share (interests, marital status etc...)
- Harpsichordist.
Posted by Cheryl on September 21, 1996 at 19:16:51:
: Here are the bio questions developed by Ramona that some of us answered 10 days ago or so. If any of the new people here would like to tell about themselves, please do. If not, okay too. I'll try to get the answers from the others in shape sometime over the weekend.
: 1) Name- Cheryl
: 2) Occupation- piano teacher and church music director
: 3) When you first saw P&P2- on A&E in Jan.
: 4) How did you find out about it? newspaper
: 5) What interested you in seeing it? I had just started to discover Jane Austen. I had seen S&S and
Persuasion just before Christmas and loved them. A friend gave me those two books as a gift and I devoured them,
so I was thrilled when P&P came along. I have since read all six novels and some of the Juvenilia, joined the Austen-L
mail list, ordered the complete Oxford editions, next payday I plan on ordering the complete set of BBC Austen movies,
but, I'm not really all that interested in Jane Austen ;-)
: 6) Have you read the original novel? yes
: 7) If so, before or after seeing the movie? after, and three times since
: 8) Favorite character(s) (other than Lizzy or Darcy-as liking them goes without saying.)I love laughing at Mr. Collins,
he's so wonderfully unctuous.
: 9) Favorite scene/sequence- A toughie! I suppose it would have to be the whole trip into Derbyshire, although
I love the 1st proposal- Lizzy is so angry you can almost see the steam coming out of her ears!
: 10) Most awkward scene to watch (or not watch because you feel so embarrassed for the characters involved)- The dinner
at the Netherfield Ball where every member of the family seems intent upon embarrassing Lizzy and Jane- I have to fast-forward,
it's too painful to watch.
: 11) Other Austen films viewed- S&S, Persuasion, Emma (and Clueless) Looking forward to the A&E Emma and my BBC tapes.
: 12) Anything else you would like to share (interests, marital status etc...)- I'm single, in my 30's, my favorite
instrument beside the piano (of course) is handbells, I'm an avid crossword and jigsaw puzzler, and love old movies (my
favorite is Singing in the Rain)
Posted by Joan, too on September 21, 1996 at 19:40:51:
: Joan,too:
: : Well, perhaps it is a bit subtle, but there are a several references indicating that Wickham is much on Lydia's mind. [snip]
Raphael:
: Yes, but notice that these are all comments by Lydia as Wickham relates TO Lizzy, personal comments about her own perceptions of him. Her passing interest here seems, to me at least, to be an effort by Lydia to teaze Elizabeth for her partiality for Wickham. Did you feel there were references there intended to show a partiality on Lydia's side?
If not partiality, at least preoccupation. While she does not appear to openly "covet" Wickham when she thinks him "taken" either by Lizzie or Mary King, she talks continuously about him.
: Raphael:
: I fully agree she had no regrets upon his declaration about Miss King, nor did she think him lower for it. [snip] but it wasn't the period of time I was referring to.
I was speaking, rather, of the scenes AFTER Wickham elopes with Lydia. I am sure Lizzy looked back on her time with him and felt ashamed of being so taken with him, so taken IN by him, just like he led everyone else on, when she knew what true character he possessed. Do you feel she felt no embarrassment about this when his true character came forth through his dealings with Lydia?
Oh, I definitely agree that she felt embarrassed about having been taken in by Wickham - and *much* earlier than that. Very sortly after reading Darcy's letter In the book "She grew absolutely ashamed of herself. Of neither Darcy nor Wickham could she think, without feeling that she had been blind, partial, prejudiced, absurd." In P&P2 when she returns from Hunsford and tells Jane about Darcy's letter she says "Until that moment I never knew myself and I had no Jane to comfort me."
However, I think that this is one thing in which Davies' script can be faulted. Nothing has been shown prior to this admission to Jane of her change of mind after reading the letter. One reaslon that I purchased the video because I *hoped* that I could "blame" A&E for cutting it ranther than Davies for omitting it, but nothing related to that issue had been cut by A&E. It could/should have happened when Lizzie was re-reading the letter up in her bedroom at Hunsford, but that scene leaves her still thinking Darcy "insufferable!". In Chapter 36 Lizzie spends the entire chapter berating herself over this, but P&P2 does not show it.
Joan, too
Posted by Joan, too on September 21, 1996 at 19:49:52:
:
: :
: : Tommye,
: : Your cry really brought out the lurkers. Thanks, though I know it was not your intention.
: : Amy
: What's a lurker??
In the on-line world it is a term that refers to someone who reads but does not comment. Since people in "read only" mode can not be "seen" by those who are posting, the real-world situation comparable to that is the individual who is standing (lurking) out of sight eavesdropping on the conversation. Unfortunately, that term does not diffentiate among those who really are "eavesdropping" and those who are too shy or too busy to participate actively.
Joan, too
Posted by Cheryl on September 21, 1996 at 20:00:26:
Sandra, visit the Friends of Firth web site (link below), contains everything you could ever want to know about CF (including some very nice pics!)
Cheryl
Link:
Posted by Stefanie on September 21, 1996 at 20:07:06:
: Sheesh. As Emma might say, "This democracy nonsense can be so tiresome!"
: So what's the thrust? Are you two just pointing out that P&P1 can be had if one wants to have it? Or are you voting for it/advocating it be kept as a nomination? Want to keep it in, and if it gets picked, help the others with suggestions about where to find it?
: Amy
I don't want to seem pushy, I just wouldn't want it to be excluded just because it might appear to be hard to find.
As for myself, I don't think that I should cast a vote since I have no way of watching whichever movie is finally chosen.
Stefanie
Posted by Joan, too on September 21, 1996 at 20:24:47:
: Ann
: I found the Milne version in a resale book store. It is a first edition published in 1936 in London by Chatto & Windus. The scene where they meet at Pemberley is increadably sweet in the play.
*Very* sweet - but not particularly "in character" for either D or E. Darcy's composure in this scene is a *long* way from Austen's description:
"he repeated his enquiries as to the time of her having left Longbourn, and of her stay in Derbyshire, so often and in so hurried a way, as plainly spoke the distraction of his thoughts. At length every idea seemed to fail him; and, after standing a few moments without saying a word, he suddenly recollected himself and took leave.
: Darcy-
: I also remember that I once invited you to come.
Did this ever happen in any of the other versions, including the book? (If so, somehow it completely escaped my notice!)
Joan, too
Posted by Susan on September 21, 1996 at 20:29:31:
: Here are the bio questions developed by Ramona that some of us answered 10 days ago or so. If any of the new people here would like to tell about themselves, please do. If not, okay too. I'll try to get the answers from the others in shape sometime over the weekend.
: Amy
: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
: 1) Name- Susan
: 2) Occupation- Unemployed but trying to get a jod doing research
: 3) When you first saw P&P2- Jan. 1996
: 4) How did you find out about it? I had seen the promos on A&E
: 5) What interested you in seeing it? I love period/historical films. I knew that it was going to be good since it was produced by BBC.
: 6) Have you read the original novel? Not yet but I plan to very soon.
: 7) If so, before or after seeing the movie?
: 8) Favorite character(s) (other than Lizzy or Darcy-as liking them goes without saying.) Mr Bennet
: 9) Favorite scene/sequence It is really hard to pick just one.
: 10) Most awkward scene to watch (or not watch because you feel so embarrassed for the characters involved)- The scene in which Mrs Bennet is talking loudly at the dinner.
: 11) Other Austen films viewed- Emma, S&S, Persuasion, Clueless, P&P(A&E/BBC) and P&P(1940's version, which I hated)
: 12) Anything else you would like to share (interests, marital status etc...)-
Single. My interests included art, reading, histroy (my major in college), England, and Jane Austen. I am currenty living in South Carolina but I can't wait to move back North!!!
Posted by Stefanie on September 21, 1996 at 20:54:58:
1) Name: Stefanie Miller
2) Occupation:
I'm a freshman Environmental Engineering major at Syracuse University.
3) When you first saw P&P2?
When it first aired in January.
4) How did you find out about it?
There was a picture of Elizabeth on the front of our TV Guide. I couldn't believe it.
5) What interested you in seeing it?
I loved the novel ever since my mother gave it to me when I was 13.
6) Have you read the original novel?
Yes, many, many, many times.
7) If so, before or after seeing the movie?
Maybe 5 times before, 2 times during and four times since. It's hard to keep track.
8) Favorite character(s) (other than Lizzy or Darcy-as liking them goes without saying.)
I guess that I am going to have to say the Gardiners and Mr. Bennet.
9) Favorite scene/sequence
There are so many to choose from. My favorite would have to be the second proposal scene. I love happy endings.
10) Most awkward scene to watch (or not watch because you feel so embarrassed for the characters involved)-
This would have to be the scene where Lizzy receives the letter from Jane in Derbyshire. I can't help but feel for her when she says "I shall never see him again."
11) Other Austen films viewed:
P&P0, Sense and Sensibility, Emma, Persuasion, Clueless and if it counts, the Wishbone version
12) Anything else you would like to share (interests, marital status etc...)
I'm 18 and single. Living in a dorm, I don't have a VCR, so I'm suffering through severe withdrawal. I only hope that this BB can satisfy my need for P&P until I go home for Thanksgiving!
I also don't have cable so I can only hope that A&E replays Emma over the summer.
Thankfully though, I did bring the books.
Posted by Marsha on September 21, 1996 at 21:05:44:
Hello!
(I am new to this, so I am not sure if I am sending this correctly) Does anybody else who read the book, thinks it's dissapointing that they ommited al the scenes between Mr Bennett's blessing and the wedding. I fwlt it was an especial pity to miss Mrs Bennett's reaction. Or does it exist on the video version? (I hope I am not talking about a subject that has already been beaten to death).
P.S. Thanks for this page-I've been searching for something like this. I usually try to break myself of my habits, but this addiction is unshakable.
Posted by Amy on September 21, 1996 at 22:46:04:
Next virtual viewing nominations. Vote by Tuesday. We will begin discussion on Sunday 9/29.
Try to vote in this thread if you can; easier to keep track. Thanks.
Amy
Follow Ups:
Posted by Dolores on September 21, 1996 at 22:53:27:
: Cheryl
: How about "A Month In the Country?" When was it made?
It was made in 1987. I saw it for the first time right after PP2 was aired (I was doing what I called a Colin Firth film festival at a local video outlet that specializes in British films. It's now one of my favorite films... gentle, understated, more spiritual than action-oriented. Kenneth Brannagh and Natasha Richardson are in it. Oops.. I think I answered your question then just kept running on.
Dolores
Follow Ups:
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