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Posted by Ann on September 21, 1996 at 12:45:48:
: The only one cinematic drawback to P&P2 -- one over which the crew had
: no control -- was that television's frame disposition is almost square,
: something against our eyes' perceptions of comfort and grace. In contrast
: films today usually use a ratio of 1:1.85, i.e. wide-screen, which is
: deliciously cinematic. If only the P&P2 crew had had that opportunity! the
: scene might have even been -- gasp -- better!
: Cordially,
: Raphael
There is one TV show which is actually shot, but not shown,
in a more cinematic ratio: Babylon 5. It would be nice if
people would get used to letterboxing the screen, so we
could have more panoramic views on TV.
Ann
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on September 21, 1996 at 12:48:37:
:
: : Raphael:
: : In addition you have a dolleyed camera trucking past the actors, very close,
: And they also had a "steadycam" in there - one mounted on the person of a cameraman - weaving in and out among the dancers...
: There is, however, one error in that scene. If you refer to the graphic of the notation for Mr. Beveridge's Maggot that Amy posted somehwere a few days ago, an extra repetition of the first line gets in at the point at which the camera cuts away and shows the "dance band" playing. If they had been filming the dancers at the time, the figure would not have worked out right!
: Joan, too
They must have messed up the filming to the first few
measures of the dance, because if you look closely at Jane
before the dance starts she is nodding her head--in slow motion!
They must not have filmed enough in real time, so they had to
fudge it.
Ann
Follow Ups:
Posted by Amy on September 21, 1996 at 12:51:33:
Ann echoed Donna's concern:
: I know that I would not be able to find PP1. Others would
: probably have the same problem
I think this is a fair reason for excluding P&P1 from the virtual viewing? Anybody wish to protest?
Amy
Follow Ups:
Posted by Amy on September 21, 1996 at 12:55:09:
Ann:
You make me curious about the left-out line. I shall re-read it. Seeing the adaptation so many times make me forget what it is supposed to be adapting -- a real danger of this addiction.
Where did you find the play? It was not the Milne verison that P&P0 was based on, I don't think.
Amy
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on September 21, 1996 at 12:55:56:
: : Ramona,
: : Thanks for bringing up a book and movie I love. The book was my favorite Jane Austen novel, although on recent rereadings P &P is hard to beat---and from the Austen-L, I am also appreciating Emma and Mansfield Park more than before). Persuasion has fewer details and plot intricacies than the other Austen novels, but zeroes in on Anne1s sense of loss and regret, at first painfully but ultimately with redemption . Not everyone has a major loss like Anne, but we can all relate to making mistakes or even sensible decisions that we later regret. Anne copes stoically on the outside, but is full of feeling underneath---we all know at least a bit what she feels like. I also love that she is an older and wiser heroine (although as I am 38, she still seems very young to me---but is certainly old in Austen-heroine terms, especially to be unmarried in those days). Elizabeth Bennet is full of spark and beauty, but Anne is a bit worn out, and her charm requires more character to appreciate. That sense that a mistake can be corrected--that Anne and Wentworth have a second chance at happiness--is irresistable to me. As far as heroes go, I like the way Wentworth works hard for a living---less time to fence and take baths than our Darcy.
: : As for the movie, the beginning would be a bit confusing if one hadn1t read the book, but I was transported into the book without anything to jar me out. I liked the way no one was Hollywood-beautiful, but more like people I know (I don1t know anyone as gorgeous as Firth1s Darcy, but I know men as handsome as Hinds1s Wentworth). That1s enough, Jane
: I am a student at Cornell, and just discovered this page. can anyone tell me when "Persuasion" is going to be showing on PBS or/and where I could get a copy?
: P.S. Thanks for the most fun hour I had reading all the messages. (Yes, I am P&P2 fan, too)
Imagine how good Persuasion would be if Austen hadn't died
before it was entirely finished!!
If you want to know when Persuasion will be aired check out
the PBS web site: www.pbs.org. They tend to be a bit slow
about putting up their schedule, but you'ld probably see it
there first.
Ann
Posted by Tommye on September 21, 1996 at 13:14:55:
Regarding your comments of today about P&P1. I, too, have come late and missed the comparison with the forrmer. I concur with your characterizations, but must include that rarely have I seen a more wooden actor, and perhaps, countenance of Mr. Darcy as on P&P1. I preferred Lizzy, Jane and Bingley from P&P2 and Mrs. Bennet, as well.
Posted by Sarah on September 21, 1996 at 13:14:59:
: Hat wondered:
: . Incidently, what do you make of Lizzie saying
: : "But if I do not take your likeness now, I may
: : never have another opportunity"? I take it to mean she hopes she
: : won't see him again.
: Maybe a distinction without a difference, but I saw it more like:
: "Sir, I hope you know I don't care if I ever see you again, and since I may not -- it makes little difference to me -- I may as well have some sport with you while you are at hand."
:
: Amy
I thought she was making a direct reference to Darcy's "my good opinion once lost is lost forever". She directly confronts him about his seemingly inflexible and unforgining nature - pointing out his shortcomings in her view. I think this is one of the things about Lizzie that attracted him- I suppose he was used to being bowed down to and treated with high regard by all his acquaintances- she has the nerve to question him on everything!
Posted by Cheryl on September 21, 1996 at 13:16:09:
I cast my vote for Enchanted April.
Cheryl
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on September 21, 1996 at 13:27:59:
: Ann:
: You make me curious about the left-out line. I shall re-read it. Seeing the adaptation so many times make me forget what it is supposed to be adapting -- a real danger of this addiction.
: Where did you find the play? It was not the Milne verison that P&P0 was based on, I don't think.
: Amy
I found the Milne version in a resale book store. It is a first
edition published in 1936 in London by Chatto & Windus.
The scene where they meet at Pemberley is increadably sweet
in the play.
So here it is:
(With one explaination:When Lizzy was trying to sketch his
character she says that she would be able to know him much
better if, just once, he would laugh at her [instead of the
other way around]).
(They set eyes eyes on eachother and Darcy approaches)
Darcy-
It is you. I thought I could not be decieved.
Elizabeth (quickly and nervously)-
They told us at the house that you would not be here until
tomorrow. And we asked in the village too. Before we came,
we asked, and they told us. To-morrow.
Darcy-
My friends do not come until tomorrow, but I had suddenly to
come in advance of them on some business with my steward.
Elizabeth-
I am here with my uncle and aunt Gardiner. She was born near
here--
Darcy-
I remember. You once told me.
Elizabeth-
We thought you were away. Even so I did not want--but my aunt
was so anxious to come. I could not very well--
Darcy-
I also remember that I once invited you to come.
Elizabeth-
Yes, but that was before--(confused) I mean--
Darcy-
I hope very much, now that you are here, that you will let
me show you something of my home.
Elizabeth-
The housekeeper was very kind, she--
Darcy-
You are tired, perhaps--
Elizabeth-
I am a little tired, we have been seeing so much--
Darcy-
Then let us sit down again. (They sit.) Will you be very kind
a little later on and present me to Mr. and Mrs. Gardiner?
Elizabeth (reluctantly)-
Yes, if you--I do not know if you will like them.
Darcy-
Do you like them?
Elizabeth (warmly)-
They are the dearest people! Nobody could help liking them!
Darcy (smiling)-
Then I do not quite see how I am to help it.
Elizabeth (suddenly smiling too)-
Now I feel quite sure that you will all like eachother.
Darcy-
Thank you. I do not know if Mr. Gardiner cares for fishing--
Elizabeth-
He cares to talk of little else. Fishing is his idea of earthly
happiness.
Darcy-
Excellent. And what is Mrs. Gardiner's idea of earthly
happiness?
Elizbeth-
Being in Derbyshire, seeing her husband happy, and, when she
has a niece with her, seeing her niece happy too.
Darcy-
Then everything seems provided for but the niece. And as I feel
sure that she is also only happy when others are happy, I want
to ask her to make two people very happy. Miss Bennet, I have
always wished for you to meet my sister. Will you?
Elizabeth (eagerly)-
Oh, but I have always wondered what she is like. (More soberly)
I mean, I have heard--
Darcy-
Well, now you shall discover for yourself. I think--I hope--that
you will love her. I am sure that she will love you. And so
now if you will present me to Mrs. Gardiner, we can make what
arrangements for meeting will best suit her.
Elizabeth (with feeling)-
You are being very kind, sir. (She stands up.)
Darcy-
Kind to myself. Let me give you an arm if you are tired.
(As they go out) Have you remarked on the extraordinary
beauty of the day?
Elizabeth-
It has been wonderfully fine all week.
Darcy-
Ah! I had not noticed it before.
(end Act II)
Like I said, it's a very sweet scene
Ann
Follow Ups:
Posted by Tommye on September 21, 1996 at 13:29:04:
Yes, my husband bought it for me, thinking he had purchased P&P2. Initially, I was horrified at the wooden Mr. Darcy, and have, on hindsight, kept that view. The script is true to the story, though shorter, in many ways, all of them varying from P&P2. The final, wonderful scene between Darcy and Lizzy is truer to the book and more rewarding. (She really milks it: "Tell me, when was it you first knew you loved me?" Paraphrased.) I derived a greater sense of pleasure from this particular scene. (Frankly, the scene as written in the book is the most rewarding of all.) P&P1 shows very little about the "Lydia" episode, to my delight. I felt this episode and its aftermath laborious on P:&P2. Lady Catherine was much more credible and developed in P&P1, and, as a result, her confrontation with Lizzy, for her part, most scathing. (The woman who played Lizzy underacted that particular scene, I felt. It was as though it didn't bother her at all. At least Lizzy trembled and was visibly shaken in P&P2).
While it's been six weeks at least since I last viewed P&P1, and I have had several doses to P&P2 to alleviate my woes, I would still recommend that you view P&P1. On the one hand, you will hate the actors; on the other, you will like some better. There is less character development (and time, period) in P&P1, to be sure; but the story remains the same and is, thus, quite rewarding. Mr. Darcy does liven up a bit, but just cannot compare with Colin Firth. Happy viewing!
Posted by Amy on September 21, 1996 at 14:00:43:
Ann,
Ohhhhh.
It is lovely. Thank you.
You make me quite envious for I have no play, only four novels.
Maybe the Milne version ought to be used as the basis of the Disney version if one is ever attempted. I thought about it last night when watching Beauty and the Beast with my 7-year old. Some similarities, though I wouldn't go so far as to call them parallels. (Early Darcy is actually kind of a blend of Gaston and the Beast.)
Amy
Follow Ups:
Posted by tommye on September 21, 1996 at 14:14:51:
: In vain have I struggled. It will not do. My feelings will
: not be repressed. You must allow me to tell you how ardently
: I admire and love P&P2. I, too, am hopelessly addicted, and
: would post numbers very similar to Tommye's were it not for the
: guilt and shame such numbers would oblige me to feel. My
: addiction has even lead me to repeated viewings alone in secret
: lest scenes arise unpleasant towards more than myself ("you're
: not watching that AGAIN?)
: I get my daily fix of Jane Austen by being an avid lurker of
: Austen-L, but my longing for more Darcy and Elizabeth was not
: satisfied until I stumbled on this BB a few days ago. Finally,
: people who know and understand what I am going through! But,
: like Tommye, I do not desire a cure, but an overdose (is such
: a thing possible?) Pray, tell me, is there an archives for
: this BB? I do not wish bring up topics that have been thoroughly
: hashed out before I found all you kindred spirits.
: Cheryl
Thank you, Cheryl, for your note! For a while, I was thinking I was the ONLY ONE! Everyone was intellectualizing so; they didn't seem to be connecting. I admit, too, that (even last night) I watched the last 1 and 1/3 hours again, after having also watched it the day before. Yes, I conceal the fact from family members.!
Follow Ups:
Posted by sarah on September 21, 1996 at 14:17:20:
< but I'm inclined to think its mostly accute shyness (because he hadn't taken the trouble
: to practise!)>
Do ya'll think Darcy was REALLY a shy person? I thought he was just copping out with a lame excuse for his snobby behavior. We don't get to see him in a variety of situations, so it is difficult to discern between shyness/extreme snobbiness. His strong personality and presence do not support the shyness route for me. Remember Col Fitzwilliam tells Lizzie how Darcy is "lively enough in other places, but gets very quiet when they come to Kent?" Maybe his aversion to his all knowing aunt and the horrible thought of his impending marriage the the beaten down Anne is the cause for this. When I think of shyness, I do not think of a man who behaves in such a forward manner in general - asking a woman to dance who he knows may be the one most likely to refuse him. His attraction to her "fine eyes" and probably her wit as well, was enough to entice him to ask for a dance. In the walking/proposal scene towards the end, he tells her "I was given good principles as a child, but left to follow them in pride and conceit" - the book continues "unfortunately for an only son(for many years an only child) I was spoilt by my parents, who thought good themselves, (my father particularly, all that was benevolent and amiable,) allowed, encouraged, almost taught me to be selfish and overbearing, to care for none beyond my own family circle, to think meanly of all the rest of the world, to wish at least to think meanly of their sense and worth compared to my own. Such I was, from 8 to 8 and 20; and such I might still have been but for you, dearest, lovliest, Elizabeth! What do I not owe you! You taught me a lesson, hard indeed at first, but most advantageous. By you, I was properly humbled. I came to you without a doubt of my reception. You shewed me how insufficient were all my pretensions to please a woman worthy of being pleased." He never dreamed of being refused the first time - whatever attraction he had to her wit before was nothing cmpared to her proposal rebuttal. I'm sure no one had ever spoken to him in such a manner - He became attracted to the one who challenged his prideful and conceited manner, i gusee remembering the good that he had earned long ago. I'm sure we all know people who could care less how their boorish and rude bahavior effects others, but for Darcy, it just took Elizabeth to change his ugly ways!
Follow Ups:
Posted by Tommye on September 21, 1996 at 14:18:33:
: No, there is no cure. Don't even bother to seek help.
: This addiction is the sweetest thing I have done to my soul.
: At least, for a few hours, I have myself believed that not all men are pigs.
: I have view 10+ times of P&P, Persuasion.....who's counting?
Thanks for sharing, Janice. I'm losing count, now. I rented Sense and Sensibility this past week and hated to return it (keeping it two extra days). I asked how much to buy: They said $99! Oh, come on! I can understand P&P2 costing that much, but surely this should be cheaper. It's only two hours!
Posted by Donna on September 21, 1996 at 15:00:51:
: : Oh oh. Don't let me get started on Jimmy Stewart. I have force more people to watch Harvey than I like to admit. Also love It's a Wonderful Life, of course, though not so much as I did before it went in the public domain for a while and was overshown on TV at Christmas time. Also adore The Flight of the Phoenix, Mr Smith Goes to Washington, and so many others.
: : I count seeing him in a stage production of Harvey as one of the high points of all my experiences of watching anything.
: : Amy
: Or how about Calling Northside 777? Marvelous aspects to that. Surprising
: take on American justice system for the time.
Call Northside 777 can't remember this one. I know I've seen most of them
Rear Window, Vertigo,The Man Who Knew Too Much, and even the westerns Cheyenne
Social with Henry Fonda and I love Harvey. I have a movie triva list book but its an old version
1984-85 it doesn't give enough information about Call Northside 777.Henry Fonda excellent,Carey Grant to
name a few. To Kill a Mockingbird love this one. Great movie I could see Colin doing this part
Atticus don't think I spelled the name right. This was one of the most perfect movies. I sure someone
will want to remake this someday. "I love old movies" I could go on and on and on. So I will cast my
vote due to avaiablity Enchanted April.
Donna
Follow Ups:
Posted by Amy on September 21, 1996 at 15:06:36:
Oh oh. Now you cause me to want to add To Kill a Mockingbird to the nominations... but it is so long already. I have not added one of my own this round. No, I will sacrifice my own wishes. I will wait. One of my faves of all time. And to think she only wrote the one book. Anyone know why?
The Stoic (may also be read co-dependent) Amy
Posted by Dolores on September 21, 1996 at 15:07:43:
: Since this comes up, I ought to put Lisa's other essay back up. She calls the Darcy POV shots "DarcyCam."
: Amy
I enjoyed Lisa's other essay. Could you put it back up for all of us newcomers?
Thanks
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ramona on September 21, 1996 at 15:27:02:
: Ann,
: Ohhhhh.
: It is lovely. Thank you.
: You make me quite envious for I have no play, only four novels.
: Maybe the Milne version ought to be used as the basis of the Disney version if one is ever attempted. I thought about it last night when watching Beauty and the Beast with my 7-year old. Some similarities, though I wouldn't go so far as to call them parallels. (Early Darcy is actually kind of a blend of Gaston and the Beast.)
: Amy
I too think it is wonderful. Is there any links on the internet for the text or info regarding this play?
The Disney idea is great too. I love Beauty and The Beast. It is my favorite animated film!
Follow Ups:
Posted by Amy on September 21, 1996 at 15:34:59:
Delores said
>>>>: I enjoyed Lisa's other essay. Could you put it back up for all of us newcomers?
I am sure she won't mind, but I will wait for her okay anyway.
Amy
P.S. All you newer folk ought to tell us about yourselves, if you want. I will put Ramona's bio questions back up too. And I'll have the all the bios linked off the FAQ soon too, I hope.
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