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In Reply to: Re: The ideal weekend posted by Ramona on September 06, 1996 at 22:05:47:
Ramona planned to have a marathon:
: : : Tonight I am off to catch Emma...I also rented Sense & Sensibility and Persuasion... And who knows in the midst of it all I may tackle P&P2 again. I also am a few chapters away from completing the Persuasion novel.
Well are you completely sick of it?
: : If they made a Jane Austen board game your evening would be truly complete! (Well, you COULD watch the BBC version of Northanger Abbey in there somewhere, but i'm just nitpicking.....)
: Well, don't laugh but it wouldn't be past me to create my own board game. I have done it before for my other entertainment interests in addition to making celebrity paper dolls.
In my first week of posting on the Austen list last spring, I suggested P&P: The Roleplaying Game. A few appreciated the idea. I thought instead of having the D&D-type character traits like strength, charisma and wisdom, you could have the Austen measures: Wit, Temper, Understanding. Somebody who used to work on the Dickens project responded and said an RPG had been developed for, I think, some Dickens conference.
Amy
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In Reply to: Never did posted by Amy on September 08, 1996 at 04:45:19:
:
: : (are those the notes that he took out?)
:
: I don't remember the particulars, but I do know that the Emperor treated Mozart in an infamous manner. And if I were you, Joan, too, I would not believe anyone's assertion if it is represented to you that the young man ever altered so much as a single quarter-rest in that opera.
RE: link to _Amadeus_ page: Another film that I liked very well, indeed! :-)
Joan, too
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In Reply to: Re: purchasing the last episode posted by Joan, too on September 06, 1996 at 21:04:56:
: : : Please don't damn me to hell for posting this message, but I was wondering if anyone would care to sell me a copy of the last episode.
: : : You see, I was taping it and did not catch the whole of it. I know this sounds petty, but I'd rather not shell out the $56 for the "official" copy.
: : : Desperately seeking P&P3.
: : I bought the "official copy" and I am so glad that I did!!
: I agree - it *is* worth it. I bought it when Blockbuster started selling it fo $89. $56 is a *steal*!
: Joan, too
Just wondering, but where in the world did you find P&P for $56? Please drop me a line and tell me!
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Here is the promised questions for your consideration. I will followup with my own answers.
1) Name-
2) Occupation-
3) When you first saw P&P2-
4) How did you find out about it?
5) What interested you in seeing it?
6) Have you read the original novel?
7) If so, before or after seeing the movie?
8) Favorite character(s) (other than Lizzy or Darcy-as liking them goes without saying.)
9) Favorite scene/sequence
10) Most awkward scene to watch (or not watch because you feel so embarrassed for the characters involved)-
11) Other Austen films viewed-
12)Anything else you would like to share (interests, marital status etc...)-
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In Reply to: Questions concerning P&P posted by Patricia on September 05, 1996 at 17:43:39:
: I'm new here so please excuse me if I repeat something you guys
: already discussed. I am very excited to have stumbled on a bunch
: of people who loved P&P2 as much as I do. I, too, taped the
: A&E rebroadcast last week but it didn't turn out very well so
: the 6-volume set is now at the top of my Christmas list along with
: the book and soundtrack you guys have been discussing.
: There are couple things in the story that I don't understand even
: after watching the movie 4 times and reading (and rereading the
: book). The first has already been mentioned. That is how did Lady
: Catherine come to know about Mr. Darcy's connection to Lizzie?
: The other is why did Wickham run away with Lydia? He seemed so
: indifferent towards her and of course she /
Well, this is just speculation, but I think that Lady C. fund out about Lizzie's connection to Mr. Darcy from Mr. Collins ( when she would let him talk!). Also I think that Whickham ran off with Lydia to tarnish the Bennet's good name so Darcy couldn't marry Lizzie. I don't know if that's right, but I hope that helps!
Laura
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In Reply to: Re: Questions concerning P&P posted by Laura on September 08, 1996 at 15:19:29:
:
: : I'm new here so please excuse me if I repeat something you guys
: : already discussed. I am very excited to have stumbled on a bunch
: : of people who loved P&P2 as much as I do. I, too, taped the
: : A&E rebroadcast last week but it didn't turn out very well so
: : the 6-volume set is now at the top of my Christmas list along with
: : the book and soundtrack you guys have been discussing.
: : There are couple things in the story that I don't understand even
: : after watching the movie 4 times and reading (and rereading the
: : book). The first has already been mentioned. That is how did Lady
: : Catherine come to know about Mr. Darcy's connection to Lizzie?
: : The other is why did Wickham run away with Lydia? He seemed so
: : indifferent tow/
Sorry about the typos! I hope you can forgive me.
Laura
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In Reply to: BIOS: questions for your consideration posted by Ramona on September 08, 1996 at 15:11:13:
1) Name- Ramona Leiter
2) Occupation- Work at print shop
3) When you first saw P&P2- When it debuted on Arts & Entertainment in January (15th?)
4) How did you find out about it? By reading a review in USA Today (which I never read--somehow I missed it in the TV Guide)
5) What interested you in seeing it? I had just recently watched the old 1940 P&P version and was curious to see how they compared. I certainly was surprised to see how wonderful the miniseries actually was. I never watch mini-series and had no previous genuine exposure to Jane Austen.
6) Have you read the original novel? Yes.
7) If so, before or after seeing the movie? After. The miniseries sparked the interest. I wanted to read about any additional details that the film might have left out.
8) Favorite character(s) (other than Lizzy or Darcy-as liking them goes without saying.) I like Mr. & Mrs. Gardiner. They aren't has humorous or colorful like the other characters. But they are stable and nice people who I would be proud to know. They are the kind of people that are in short supply in any time period.
9) Favorite scene/sequence- My favorite is Lizzy and Darcy's encounter and further visit at Pemberly. This was left out of the old film and added greatly to their relationship and to the depth of the story. And of course there is the "look" while Lizzy sings and plays the piano.
10) Most awkward scene to watch (or not watch because you feel so embarrassed for the characters involved)- I can't watch when Mrs. Bennet starts encouraging Mr. Darcy about dancing and he walks away without a word. Such awkwardness from Darcy and Mrs. Bennet. I would truly be embarrassed in that situation.
11) Other Austen films viewed- I have seen all the other recent ones: Emma, Persuasion, and Sense & Sensibility
12)Anything else you would like to share (interests, marital status etc...)- I love music, reading, watching movies and surfing the net (esp. this site.) I am in my 20s, married for six years and have two young children--a boy and a girl.
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In Reply to: Re: The ideal weekend - report? posted by Amy on September 08, 1996 at 13:50:04:
Any said--
: Well are you completely sick of it?
I cant say that I am sick of it. Although I will say that the first time I viewed Emma with a packed movie house. The audience obviously had read the novel because many laughed before a character even uttered a word because they anticipated what would happen. This was so refreshing to be in an enthusiastic crowd. However this time of seeing it. There were only about 20 people who were utterly CLUELESS, as they only barely snickered at a few parts. My timid friend and I were the most jovial of the bunch. How discouraging compared to the first time.
That was Friday night. My friend and I watched P&P0 on Saturday. My other friend and I watched Sense and Sensiblity on Sat. afternoon. Tonight is for Persuasion.
I feel that all these stories have such depth and insight that they could never be exhausted in their wisdom and entertainment value. I am so grateful for the gift of discovering them!!
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In Reply to: 2 things: bios and new perspective posted by Amy on September 08, 1996 at 04:17:11:
: 2. I would like some posters to try out an alternative way to look at messages here. It's a very alpha modification of the admin script, but allows you to check for the most recent messages. I've found it useful and will fix it up for everybody's use if you like it.
Would this become an option that would ultimately appear in the "[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ P&P2 BB ] [ FAQ ]" line at the top of the page?
I tried it, and think it would be useful as an option to use once in a while, but I had expected that it would contain all of the info currently appearing on the main page, but sorted by date and displayed flush left like this (hope I'm doing this right!):
The display of just message numbers is very efficient for the person who plans on reading everything new, but it wouldn't help people who might be selectively following only particular threads.
Next time you're in the mood to tinker, something else that I'd find very useful would be the ability to choose to never have one's own postings appear in the "unread" color. The present format would be a lot more efficient (than it is) if one didn't have to actually "read" one's own postings to make them change color so that one can just look at the colors to find new postings that are not one's own. I don't know perl from pearl or purl, and I have no idea as to whether this would be easy to do or not, but it works well in the WebCaucus software currently being developed on The Meta Net. (It would also be handy to be able to toggle the seen/unseen color of *anyone's* posting - in case you wanted to come back to it later.)
What??? You say this isn't the suggestion box? Oops - my mistake! ;-)
Joan, too
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In Reply to: Re: Questions concerning P&P posted by Laura on September 08, 1996 at 15:19:29:
:
: : I'm new here so please excuse me if I repeat something you guys
: : already discussed. I am very excited to have stumbled on a bunch
: : of people who loved P&P2 as much as I do. I, too, taped the
: : A&E rebroadcast last week but it didn't turn out very well so
: : the 6-volume set is now at the top of my Christmas list along with
: : the book and soundtrack you guys have been discussing.
: : There are couple things in the story that I don't understand even
: : after watching the movie 4 times and reading (and rereading the
: : book). The first has already been mentioned. That is how did Lady
: : Catherine come to know about Mr. Darcy's connection to Lizzie?
: : The other is why did Wickham run away with Lydia? He seemed so
: : indifferent towards her and of course she /
: Well, this is just speculation, but I think that Lady C. fund out about Lizzie's connection to Mr. Darcy from Mr. Collins ( when she would let him talk!). Also I think that Whickham ran off with Lydia to tarnish the Bennet's good name so Darcy couldn't marry Lizzie. I don't know if that's right, but I hope that helps!
:
: Laura
I do not think that Wickham knew anything about Darcy being in love with Lizzy
There is no evidence for it in the book or in the series. Remember that during most of her aquaitance with Wickham
Lizzy thought she disliked Darcy. Remember that even Jane was very surprised at their engagement.Charlotte noted Darcys intrest i Lizzy
at Rosings.The Gardiner notised also at Pemberly.Maybe colonel Fitzwilliam guessed someting
or was told someting by Darcy but we do not know. As for why Wickham run away with Lydia.
He had gambling debts and other debt to run away from and did not say no to company and probably liked young girls.
Maybe he was not thinking with his head when he run away with Lydia.He was not to afraid of her family either.
but the whole elopement sems rather thoughtless.And he seems not to think about Lydias fate if he left her.
Anna-Karin
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In Reply to: Re: new perspective posted by Joan, too on September 08, 1996 at 16:22:11:
: Would this become an option that would ultimately appear in the "[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ P&P2 BB ] [ FAQ ]" line at the top of the page?
: I tried it, and think it would be useful as an option to use once in a while,
Right. That's what I thought.
I can't do a lot of fancy stuff.
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In Reply to: Re: purchasing the last episode posted by Laura on September 08, 1996 at 15:09:06:
:
: Just wondering, but where in the world did you find P&P for $56? Please drop me a line and tell me!
Well, unfortunately, I didn't - but it has been reported that Price/Costco had it at that price.
Joan, too
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In Reply to: Re: Patchwork intelligence posted by Joan, too on September 07, 1996 at 01:32:17:
: : : Joan found merit in the Maria proposal:
: : : >: Maria! Another likely "suspect" who also had an opportunity to compare notes with her own sister
: : :
: : : But you know what? I bet it was a combination. Maybe all our suspicions are right, and if Austen determined the information got to Lady C through a convoluted patchwork, she might not take up our time to explain it.
: : : Maybe Maria won the confidence of one of Charlotte's servant's. I can see her doing that.
: : : Maybe Maria won the confidence of one of Charlotte's servant's. I can see her doing that.
: I don't think it probable, though, that the Collinses did much gossipping with their servants. The tendency among those having servants seems more along the lines of trying to keep choice pieces of gossip from being heard by the servants.
: : : And Charlotte had her own suspicions very early on and might politely pump her little sister for details. (One detail we can't assume Maria reports is Lizzie's statement in the carriage about having "so much to conceal." I checked the text and JA has her say it privately. )
: Probably didn't need to pump, though Lizzie's comment on how much she had to conceal was definitely not heard by Maria. The director had the two turning away from one another at that point, and Lizzie's comment was just for the ears of the audience.
: : By the autumn, he would have been at Hunsford for a year and a half, and if he continued to go to Rosings every day, he and Lady C would naturally get to the point where they might scheme and develop theories about things like why Miss DuBourg had not received a formal proposal from Darcy yet. I can hear her asking, "Did you perceive during your stay in Herefordshire that Darcy had formed an attachment with the Bingley sister or any other young lady? With whom did he dance at the ball?"
: Hmmmm - I can't see Lady C. doing that - she does not consider Mr. Collins anywhere near an equal (as he told Lizzie, "she likes to have the distinction of rank preserved") and would hardly be likely to take him into her confidence regarding anything of a such personal nature as whether Darcy is "cheating" on Ann.
: : Have any of you considered Fitzwilliam as the culpret? When Darcy takes his trip to London, he may have confided in the Col. Also, I can't see Charlotte being bold enough to discuss her suspisions with Lady Catherine. Fitzwilliam also has a tendency to gossip as it is seen when he discusses Jane and Bingley's engagement to Elizabeth.
: He is certainly not beyond suspicion - he definitely is not someone I'd tell something I wanted kept secret! But I *can* see Charlotte discussing not her suspicion, but her *conviction* that another wedding is likely in the context of sharing the news about Bingley and Jane.
: Joan, too
:
: : : And Charlotte had her own suspicions very early on and might politely pump her little sister for details. (One detail we can't assume Maria reports is Lizzie's statement in the carriage about having "so much to conceal." I checked the text and JA has her say it privately. )
: : : And we already know that Mr Collins draws conclusions about the Bennets from Charlotte's information (ie Lydia).
: : : And we can also assume that Lady Catherine would pump both Mr and Mrs Collins for anything they knew or even suspected. And you know Collins would spill it with little or no prompting: By the autumn, he would have been at Hunsford for a year and a half, and if he continued to go to Rosings every day, he and Lady C would naturally get to the point where they might scheme and develop theories about things like why Miss DuBourg had not received a formal proposal from Darcy yet. I can hear her asking, "Did you perceive during your stay in Herefordshire that Darcy had formed an attachment with the Bingley sister or any other young lady? With whom did he dance at the ball?"
: : : And, it is not impossible to believe that Lady C, with all her snooping and networking and sending treasures of servants, that she maintained some contact with the staff at Pemberley. She must have visited there when her sister was alive, and Mrs. Reynolds had been employed at Pemberley for 24 years. Lady C would have been likely to stick her nose in at Pemberley, its lacking a mistress for so long.
: : : Oh I don't know. And after all this blathering about it I am beginning not to care. See? This is how we get this stuff out of our systems. It works.
: : : Amy
:
: :
: : Have any of you considered Fitzwilliam as the culpret? When Darcy takes his trip to London, he may have confided in the Col. Also, I can't see Charlotte being bold enough to discuss her suspisions with Lady Catherine. Fitzwilliam also has a tendency to gossip as it is seen when he discusses Jane and Bingley's engagement to Elizabeth.
I think that colonel Fitzwilliam got to know about Darcys fealings for Elisabeth.
Maybe he had suspected something before they came to Rosings.I do not think that
Darcy had told him directly (remember Darcy was trying to repress his feelings for her) but as
Darcys closest fiend he maybe have sensed something.At Rosings I think he saw something of what
his cousin was feeling.When Darcy writes the letter to Lizzy he is clearly refering to colonel Fitzwilliam
And the next morning the colonel stays one hour at the parsonage in hope to se Lizzy so he then must have known
something.But I do not think he would have told anyone about it.
Anna-Karin
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In Reply to: BIOS: questions for your consideration posted by Ramona on September 08, 1996 at 15:11:13:
: 1) Name-
Amy Bellinger
: 2) Occupation-
Work at home editor and data analyst
: 3) When you first saw P&P2-
Jan 96 on A&E
: 4) How did you find out about it?
A&E promo, probably
: 5) What interested you in seeing it?
Had already read all Austen including the unfinished novels, but not the juvenelia; P&P several times
: 6) Have you read the original novel?
Yes
: 7) If so, before or after seeing the movie?
Before
:
8) Favorite character(s) (other than Lizzy or Darcy-)
I love Austen's jerks. Mr Collins was played over the top, but horrible and great to watch, like Barney Fife.
: 9) Favorite scene/sequence
I won't try to be different for difference's sake. I adore the look at Pemberley. If anyone ever looks at me that way again -- just once, ever -- I will die happy.
: 10) Most awkward scene to watch (or not watch because you feel so embarrassed for the characters involved)-
Supper at Netherfield
: 11) Other Austen films viewed-
Everything but the old BBC Northanger Abbey and Mansfield Park
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In Reply to: Re: Questions concerning P&P posted by Anna-Karin on September 08, 1996 at 17:39:17:
: : Laura:
: : Well, this is just speculation, but I think that Lady C. fund out about Lizzie's connection to Mr. Darcy from Mr. Collins ( when she would let him talk!).
At the end of chapter 57, in Mr. Collins' letter to Mr. Bennet, Mr. C. acknowledges being the person who actually told Lady C. "After mentioning the likelihood of this marriage to her ladyship last night..."
: : Laura:
: : Also I think that Whickham ran off with Lydia to tarnish the Bennet's good name so Darcy couldn't marry Lizzie.
: Anna-Karin:
: I do not think that Wickham knew anything about Darcy being in love with Lizzy There is no evidence for it in the book or in the series. Remember that during most of her aquaitance with Wickham Lizzy thought she disliked Darcy. Remember that even Jane was very surprised at their engagement.Charlotte noted Darcys intrest i Lizzy at Rosings.The Gardiner notised also at Pemberly.Maybe colonel Fitzwilliam guessed someting or was told someting by Darcy but we do not know. As for why Wickham run away with Lydia. He had gambling debts and other debt to run away from and did not say no to company and probably liked young girls. Maybe he was not thinking with his head when he run away with Lydia.He was not to afraid of her family either. but the whole elopement sems rather thoughtless.And he seems not to think about Lydias fate if he left her.
I agree - there would have been no way that Wickham would have known that Lizzie had any interest in Darcy. Untill his conversation with Lizzie at Longbourn *after* his marriage to Lydia, he thinks that she still believes the lies that he told her about Darcy, and is on "his side."
Joan, too
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Here's the address of A&E's Pride and Prejudice sweepstakes:
London Literary Sweepstakes
P.O. Box 10249
Burbank, California 91504
Send name, address, phone and age. I don't mind you winning one
of the videos but I've got dibs on the great UK trip (don't
worry, I've never won anything in my life).
I don't know when the deadline is but when I registered on-line,
by visiting A&E's Home page at www.aetv.com, I remember seeing
that the drawings would be next August. Seems a bit far off.
Hope that helps and thanks to everyone that responded to my
questions concerning two of the scenes in P&P2. I'm so glad
to know that I'm not the Darcy-Lizzie addict in the world.
Thanks again, Patricia
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In Reply to: Re: after the letter posted by Jaon, too on September 06, 1996 at 04:31:20:
:
: : Sarah:
: : Ya'll, I have a question about the scene after Lizzie reads the letter from Darcy. She returns to the Collins' ( while still reading the letter) and Maria tells her that Darcy and Fitzwilliam had both been there to see her, with Darcy leaving quickly and Fitzwilliam waiting an hour. The book gives this same account, but no explanation. Was Darcy having Fitzwilliam there to verify his story?
: I think it was obligatory of them to at least show up and say goodbye, and I expect that at that time Darcy was relieved not to find Lizzie there, and left as soon as politeness would allow. On the other hand (especially in the book) we get the idea that Fitzwilliam really likes Lizzie a lot, and if he had not been a younger son, and needed to find a wife with money, he'd have made a move on Lizzie himself. I think he lets her know as much in the book.
: It was hard for me to get during this story and some of her others how much of their private business they shared with each other. It seemed that FW knew much of Lizzie when they first met at the Collins', (and Darcy still acted like a geet!)
: Darcy seems to have ho problem talking *about* how he feels about Lizzie to just about anyone - except her. It was surprising how open he was with Caroline Bingley about his thoughts about her (though clearly some of the time he did it just to vex her), and it's evident that he also spoke favorably with both Georgiana and Fitzwilliam about her
: Another example is the scene at the Nethererfield Ball when Jane tells Lizzie that she asked Bingley about the business with Darcy and Wickam - she says he does not know the particulars, but does think Wickam is the offensive party. It seems odd to me that Darcy and Bingley are such good friends and Bingley would not know the details of this. Except that Darcy was so private - what do ya'll think?
: :Laura says:
: : Okay, my interpretation is that because the whole elopement thing with Georgiana and Wickham was too embarrassing to share with Bingley.
: I agree. Ithink that he would not have spoken specifically about Wickham and Georgiana to anyone other than Fitzwilliam. He is quite protective of her (and her reputation), and very specific about considering revealing his private business to the public "beneath him" - when he did speak of Wickham, it was probably in generalities.
: : Laura:
: : Possibly Darcy told Fitzwilliam about his feelings and wished the Col. to verify that the letter was true and correct.
: Possibly.
: : Laura:
: : Remember, Darcy thinks Lizzy fancies Wickham enough to marry him, this would totally destroy Darcy that he loses out on the one he really loves.
: ...yes, and to the very person whom he most despises! A nice plot twist.
: Jaon, too
I think that colonel Fitzwilliam got to know about Darcys fealings for Elisabeth.
Maybe he had suspected something before they came to Rosings.I do not think that
Darcy had told him directly (remember Darcy was trying to repress his feelings for her) but as
Darcys closest fiend he maybe have sensed something.At Rosings I think he saw something of
what
his cousin was feeling.When Darcy writes the letter to Lizzy he is clearly refering to colonel
Fitzwilliam
And the next morning the colonel stays one hour at the parsonage in hope to se Lizzy so he then
must have known
something.But I do not think he would have told anyone about it.
Anna-Karin
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In Reply to: Re: The missing scenes posted by Matthew on September 06, 1996 at 19:16:03:
: :
: : Anna-Karin wrote:
[respectably snipped]
: : Well, to be entirely fair, A&E did broadcast the un-cut version in 6 separate installments for teachers to record for classroom use (at 4:00 AM Pacific time!), and will do it again in November/December. And they did have enough "class" not interrupt long scenes such as the Netherfield ball with commercials. But I still think that they should not have devalued the production that they participated in creating by cutting ANTHING for the general viewing public!
: : Joan
:
: I just found out about the missing scenes (although i had suspected as much). The only thing that i didn't like about the versions i saw on A&E were the rather abrupt "cutaways to commercials". The editing for television left a lot to be desired. Will there really be unedited one-hour segments aired in November/December? If you have the dates, please e-mail me at skeezix@mis.ca Thank you so very much!
Please post the re-airing info. in this newsgroup. I also would like to know.
I did not see the original post, so I could be missing in the point of discussion here.
Are those so-called "edited-out" segments not aired on A&E anything to do with the scenes after Mr. Darcy's proposal to Miss Lizzy?
"Newbee fan of J. A."
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In Reply to: BIOS: questions for your consideration posted by Ramona on September 08, 1996 at 15:11:13:
: Here is the promised questions for your consideration.
: 1) Name- Joan Winsor (No "d" - NO relation to Charles!)
: 2) Occupation- Special Ed Teacher
: 3) When you first saw P&P2- January '96
: 4) How did you find out about it? Promos on A&E
: 5) What interested you in seeing it? Actually, I was *not* intersted in seeing it - in fact I purposely avoided seeing the first segment. I usually avoid dramatizations of literary works that I have particularly enjoyed because I've too often found it less than satisfying watching a performance based on a wonderful work of literature only to discover that the script is unfaithful to the spirit of the original and/or the casting is so unlike what one has imagined the character(s) to be like as to spoil the effect of the entire production. I tuned in to the second installment about half-way through after being urged by others not to miss it, and was immediately sorry to have missed the beginning! Thank goodness it was re-broadcast right away!
: 6) Have you read the original novel? yes
: 7) If so, before or after seeing the movie? both
: 8) Favorite character(s) (other than Lizzy or Darcy-as liking them goes without saying.) David Bamber's portrayal of Mr. Collins is a masterpiece. That sideways crab-like walk - his entire body language! Even with the smallest parts, those performing them have given them complete characterizations. In my own imagination, I had not paid much attention to Mr Hurst, so his characterization actually improved on my recollection of the book.
: 9) Favorite scene/sequence I guess if I have to pick just one, it would be the evening at Pemberly...
: 10) Most awkward scene to watch (or not watch because you feel so embarrassed for the characters involved)- Again there are several, but the worst has to be the banquet at Netherfield - especially Mary's singing and Mrs. B's comments about throwing the other girls in the path of other righ men. But a close second is Mrs. B's visit to Netherfield when Jane is sick.
: 11) Other Austen films viewed- P&P0
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