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In Reply to: Subdued Jane, Bingley the Dork posted by Amy on August 30, 1996 at 17:57:24:
>>The biggest discrepancy in my mind was Lady Catherine's
>>character -- I always thought of her as someone
>>slightly younger
: Right, even if Anne is 23, Lady C couldn't be 50
: Amy
Why couldn't she be 50? 25 wasn't an excessively
late age for marrying then, and Lady Catherine
might not have had Anne in her first years of
marriage.
Follow Ups:
In Reply to: Re: Playford -- don't let me get started posted by Lisa on August 30, 1996 at 11:49:15:
Lisa said:
>: Amy, Where did you get the dance instructions?
Link below for "Hyde Park" insturcitons. For anybody who subscribes to the Austen-L list, there has been a discussion of Mr Beveridge's Maggot there currently as well. I've asked permission to repost the most thorough commentary about it. Will put it up as soon as I get the okay.
Amy
In Reply to: Lady C.'s age posted by The Mysterious H.C. on August 31, 1996 at 16:44:32:
: Why couldn't she be 50? 25 wasn't an excessively
: late age for marrying then, and Lady Catherine
: might not have had Anne in her first years of
: marriage.
Right, she could be 60. How old do you think she probably was? How old do you like to see her?
In Reply to: Subdued Jane, Bingley the Dork posted by Amy on August 30, 1996 at 17:57:24:
Amy said
: I commented earlier about Bingley's puppet-like hopping. Everyone seems to agree with you that this Bingley was a dork. But, you know, I didn't hate him or anything. He wasn't really too dorky for comfort or anything like that.
: I think he was intended to be a straight, nice guy who would not get in the way of the real story. If he had been drawn as excessively handsome or more equal to Darcy in wealth and understanding, Darcy couldn't shine so bright -- and we might even wonder if Lizzie shouldn't prefer him. That happened to me in Middlemarch and even in Anna Karenina: I dwelt for a moment on the possibility that the heroine might choose someone else. Austen does not let us do that. She takes us in a pretty straight line.
I think Bingley was lot less dorky than Mr. Collins or Sir William or Mr. Hearst or his sisters et al. The point was that Bingley was essentially good hearted and not full of himself-two very important, amiable qualities. He was just right for Jane. Just as dorky Edward Ferrars was right for Elinor in Sense and Sensibility.
-Ramona
Reposted from the Austen-L list with Beverly's permission:
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 23:06:45 -0400
From: Beverly Francis <BHFrancis@AOL.COM>
Subject: "Mr. Beveridge's Maggot" and Other Country Dances
There have been several recent inquiries about "Mr. Beveridge's Maggot" and
country dance style. Readers in North America may be interested to know that
the Country Dance and Song Society is an excellent source of information and
materials about English and American music and dance. The Society is an
umbrella group for numerous local dance groups in the US and Canada. You can
find out if there is country dancing in your area by contacting CDSS at 17
New South Street, Northampton, MA 01060. Telephone: (413) 584-9913. CDSS
maintains a web page at http://www.cdss.org.
Mr. Beveridge was a dancing master active in London in the 1690's and early
1700's. "Mr. Beveridge's Maggot" is a whim or fancy in his honor, although
it is not known whether he actually composed the dance. The music is written
in 3/2 time, a fairly common time signature for that period. Dancers would
take three steps to each bar of music, but the steps are very smooth and
even, which is quite different from the "long-short-short" steps of the 3/4
time waltz of the 19th century. There are at least two modern
interpretations of the Playford notation that are taught to country dance
groups today. The choreography seen in PP3 is an adaptation fairly close to
what you would see danced recreationally today. The dance version in the
current "Emma" starts out fairly recognizably, but then takes a distinctly
theatrical turn as Emma and Mr. Knightley continually cast around the other
couples to reach the bottom of the set. I can imagine why a modern
theatrical choreographer would want to stage "Mr. Beveridge's Maggot,"
because the dance firgures and the tune are both very elegant, but I wonder
of a dance from 1695 would have been likely to be popular in the Regency
period. Dance tunes and figures went through just as many evolutions of
style and fashion as other forms of popular culture, and hundreds of new
dances were published every year. In PP3 we saw Elizabeth dance "Shrewsbury
Lasses" with Mr. Collins. This is a dance from 1765 (popular today in a
slightly different form). The dance done by Lydia and friends in the
backgound at the Lucas party is recognizable as "Pleasures of the Town" from
the same time period. Both of these dances have tunes and choreography much
more typical of the late 18th century than "Mr. Beveridge."
None of the recent film adaptations have shown how a formal ball would start
with the minuet, a rigidly formal couple dance with elaborately controlled
footwork and choreography, performed one couple at a time and sometimes
lasting as long as two hours. The minuet would be likely to be followed by
cotillions, usually in square sets (the predecessors of quadrilles and modern
square dances). Then country dances in longways sets "for as many as will"
would follow. A ball often finished with the dance "Sir Roger De Coverley,"
which survives today in a more rambunctious form as the "Virginia Reel."
I wonder if there is someone on the listserv who can help me untangle the
choreography of the "Boulangere" (the dance mentioned in Jane Austen's
letters and by Mrs. Bennet in description of the Meryton Assembly)?
Beverly Francis
In Reply to: Lizzie and Darcy hated pretense posted by Amy on August 31, 1996 at 08:30:40:
Amy commented:
>Taking it a step further, the more a reader or viewer shares Austen's view of the world and society and her personal likes and dislikes, the more we adore her characters, identify with them and find ourselves part of their world. No?
Yes, from my standpoint. I believe it's beneficial to have some knowledge of the various types of personality, temperment, communication styles, etc., as classified by various inventories such as Myers-Briggs. I can only say I 'believe' them because when I took them and looked at the results...they had me pegged! I must assume that these tests also hold some merit for other 'types'. I think it would be interesting to attempt to correlate the different 'types' with those who are drawn to not just P&P, but who specifically admire the character traits of Lizzie and Darcy. I don't know enough to speculate, but I suspect Amy may be on to something here. Anybody want to do a Myers-Briggs poll of post-ers? (Like, I'll tell you mine if you tell me yours.)
In the meantime, Amy's post stimulated me to dig deep into my hard drive and retrieve the following excerpts. To me, Lizzie's and Darcy's behavior manifested the type of "self-reliant" approach which RWE praised, and to which I aspire. (Note Jane Austen pre-dated Emerson.)
Excerpts from the essay Self-Reliance, by Ralph Waldo Emerson (1841)
"A man should learn to detect and watch that gleam of light which flashes across his mind from within , more than the lustre of the firmament of bards and sages. Yet he dismisses without notice his thought, because it is his. In every work of genius we recognize our own rejected thoughts: they come back to us with a certain alienated majesty. Great works of art have no more affecting lesson for us than this. They teach us to abide by our spontaneous impression with good-humored inflexibility then most when the whole cry of voices is on the other side. Else, tomorrow a stranger will say with masterly good sense precisely what we have thought and felt all the time, and we shall be forced to take with shame our own opinion from another."
"Trust thyself: every heart vibrates to that iron string."
" The virtue most request is conformity. Self-reliance is its aversion. It [Conformity] loves not realities and creators, but names and customs.
"No law can be sacred to me but that of my nature. Good and bad are but names very readily transferable to that or this; the only right is what is after my constitution, the only wrong what is against it."
"What I must do is all that concerns me, not what the people think. It is the harder, because you will always find those who think they know what is your duty better than you know it. It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own. But the great man is he who in the midst of the crowd keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude."
"The other terror that scares us from self-trust is our consistency; a reverence for our past act or word, because the eyes of others have no other data for computing our orbit than our past acts, and we are loth to disappoint them."
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and tomorrow speak what tomorrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said today. --"Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood."-- Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood."
"There will be an agreement in whatever variety of actions, so they be each honest and natural in their hour. For of one will, the actions will be harmonious, however unlike they seem. These varieties are lost sight of at a little distance, at a little height of thought. One tendency unites them all. The voyage of the best ship is a zigzag line of a hundred tacks. See the line from a sufficient distance, and it straightens itself to the average tendency. Your genuine action will explain itself, and will explain your other genuine actions. Your conformity explains nothing.
"At times the whole world seems to be in conspiracy to importune you with emphatic trifles. Friend, client, child, sickness, fear, want, charity, all knock at once at thy closet door, and say, "Come out unto us." But keep thy state; come not into their confusion. The power men possess to annoy me, I give them by a weak curiosity. No man can come near me but through my act."
Follow Ups:
In Reply to: Could you keep loving Lizzie? posted by Amy on August 31, 1996 at 08:16:07:
Amy remarked:
: Steve said:
: >...analyzing my fondness towards Lizzie, I can't segregate looks from character from humor, etc. What appeals to me is, if you'll excuse this rather pedestrian term, the "whole enchilada"
:
: That is good to hear. It makes me feel better about men in general to think that Lizzie is admired. But I have to wonder if the attraction to her strong spirit would fade in a long relationship with a guy who was not sure enough of himself. Would he come to resent her independence and try to bash it down?
: (I guess I am showing my history)
Excuse me? You feel "better" because I expressed a fondness for Lizzie? Gee, if that's all it takes for you to think more kindly towards my gender...you must be coming from a pretty dad-burned low baseline! (You don't also run a "Thelma and Louise" discussion list, do you, Amy?)
I can't speak personally to where a strong spirit like Lizzie would endure a long-term relationship, since I haven't had the privilege. I have, however, experienced a 15-yr marriage to a high-school sweetheart who was so not-Lizzie that I would *welcome* a Lizzie in my life. (Jennifer, are you browsing?)
Oops, sorry to let out a little of *my* history. Must be cause we're the same age, Amy. ;)
Steve
I got this quiz from Susannah Fullerton of The Jane Austen Society of Australia Inc. Try it and post your answers back. Correct answers in two weeks:-
1. Who finds himself in the same room at once with "the woman he had just married, the woman he had wanted to marry, and the woman whom he had been expected to marry"?
2. Who thinks that to marry for money is "the wickedest thing in existence"?
3. Who declared that the only time she "really suffered in body and mind" was when she was away from her husband?
4. At the end of Emma, three couples get married. What is the order of the ceremonies?
5. Which lovers become "for a while each other's punishment"?
6. Who learns to "prefer soft light eyes to sparkling dark ones"?
7. Who finds consolation from an unhappy marriage "in his breed of horses and dogs, and in sporting of every kind"?
8. Which couple gets engaged at Longstaple?
9. Who is "run away with by his feelings" when proposing marriage?
10. Which couples get engaged while out for a walk?
11. "You must allow me to tell you how ardently I admire and love you." Who says these words? (and you have rocks in your head if you can't answer this one)
12. Who describes himself as "a very indifferent lover?"
13. Who writes of whom: "She is the only woman in the world whom I could ever think of as a wife"?
14. Which couple falls in love over poetry?
15. Who wears his fiancee's hair set in a ring?
Have fun!!
You may be interested to learn the existence of "The Jane Austen Society of Australia Inc". They welcome members from overseas as well.
JASA produces a twice yearly publication Sensibilities which is sent to all members. This journal includes transcripts of presentations at the bi-monthly meetings, and other items of interest to members. It has been praised for its high literary standards. There is also a twice-yearly Newsletter of news and views, to which members' contributions are warmly invited.
For more information, contact The Jane Austen Phoneline, Susannah Fullerton (612) 9380 5894 (Sydney, Australia) or by Snail Mail to Elizabeth Budge, 12 Judith Street, Berala NSW 2141.
You may be interested to learn the existence of "The Jane Austen Society of Australia Inc". They welcome members from overseas as well.
JASA produces a twice yearly publication Sensibilities which is sent to all members. This journal includes transcripts of presentations at the bi-monthly meetings, and other items of interest to members. It has been praised for its high literary standards. There is also a twice-yearly Newsletter of news and views, to which members' contributions are warmly invited.
For more information, contact The Jane Austen Phoneline, Susannah Fullerton (612) 9380 5894 (Sydney, Australia) or by Snail Mail to Elizabeth Budge, 12 Judith Street, Berala NSW 2141.
In Reply to: Re: Lizzie and Darcy ... and Ralph Waldo posted by Steve on August 31, 1996 at 22:07:27:
: Steve wrote:
: Anybody want to do a Myers-Briggs poll of post-ers? (Like, I'll tell you mine if you tell me yours.)
...or how about doing it "as" Lizzie or Darcy - as revealed by Austen's characterizations of them?
: I must assume that these tests also hold some merit for other 'types'.
Research says that they do - but also that they change within a particular individual depending on what the person happens to be experiencing in life at the moment that they do the inventory. So theoretically, it ought to be possible for the "type" of someone profoundly affected by experiencing something (perhaps even by an inspired/inspiring performance?) to have its influence reflected in the results of an Meyers-Briggs inventory. Too bad there's
no pre-post data. ;-)
: Excerpts from the essay Self-Reliance, by Ralph Waldo Emerson (1841)
Great quotes from RWE! Haven't come across those since undergraduate days!
In Reply to: The missing scene I most want to see posted by Amy on August 31, 1996 at 12:58:14:
: Janey thinks:
: : Too bad A&E had to cut these scenes though...I mean, transitional and
: : "insignificant" as they may be, if you're going to make a commitment
: : to air a 6-hour miniseries over 3 consecutive nights, what's 20 extra minutes??
AMEN!!! (Although from A&E's viewpoint another 20 minutes has to be in six figures at the very least, and probably seven or more!)
And actually, several of the missing scenes were *not* insignificant from the screenwriter/author's viewpoint. Several were expository of the personalities of the characters, and the omission of some caused other scenes that were not cut to appear completely pointless, though they were not when taken in context with the missing scenes.
In Reply to: Re: Lizzie and Darcy ... and Ralph Waldo posted by Joan on September 01, 1996 at 04:05:26:
Joan suggested:
: ...or how about doing it "as" Lizzie or Darcy - as revealed by Austen's characterizations of them?
Actually, it's been so long since I've done it, I'd settle for doing it as Lizzie *or* Darcy. ;)
But, seriously....
There is an abbreviated version of the Myers-Briggs (about 70 questions) in the book _Please Understand Me_, by David Keirsey and Marilyn Bates. As Joan suggests, it might be fun for those of us who have it to attempt to take the test 'as' the characters of Darcy and Lizzie. Then compare the results of see how much variation there is among our interpretations.
: : Excerpts from the essay Self-Reliance, by Ralph Waldo Emerson (1841)
: Great quotes from RWE! Haven't come across those since undergraduate days!
Your welcome.
Steve
Follow Ups:
In Reply to: Re: Lizzie and Darcy ... and Ralph Waldo posted by Steve on August 31, 1996 at 22:07:27:
Thanks for Ralph on a Sunday morning. After reading the quotation, I tidied up the shrub bed, found a bright green and black catepiller in the melons and brought it in to show my little boy. All in all better than church for me. (Well better than church usually is.)
Oh dear. This topic, like a lot of others we talk about here has been discussed (and still lingers a bit) on the AUSTEN-L list. Sometimes I wonder if we shouldn't just all join there and live with the possibility that our adaptation gushings will be frowned on.
I like the ideas proposed about M-B. I never got into the thread with the Austen list because I saturated myself with pop pysch, self help, and all that stuff several years ago. I don't even remember my type, but wouldn't mind finding out if Steve or Joan or somebody else will coordinate it. I find I am maxed out on the time I am willing to devote to this board; it's a case of having too many non-paying projects going. Everybody's been there.
I do have a few suggestions to get it started:
Let me know what I should do to participate.
Amy
Follow Ups:
In Reply to: P&P2 Penpal posted by Lisa on August 29, 1996 at 16:42:58:
: I would love to have a P&P2 penpal! If anyone wants one to just write to me at my E-mail address!
I too would enjoy a penpal. Lisa and anyone else is welcome to e-mail me at oasis@tir.com. I would enjoy discussing any of the recent movie adaptations and the recent Jane Austen craze and as to why there is such recent and long term success for her stories.
In Reply to: Jane Austen's Lovers: A Quiz posted by Caroline on August 31, 1996 at 23:11:00:
You want to do this collaboratively? Here are my guesses without going to the books.
: 1. Who finds himself in the same room at once with "the woman he had just married, the woman he had wanted to marry, and the woman whom he had been expected to marry"?
Don't know. The mom's lover in Lady Susan?
: 3. Who declared that the only time she "really suffered in body and mind" was when she was away from her husband?
Mrs Croft?
: 6. Who learns to "prefer soft light eyes to sparkling dark ones"?
Mr. Elton
: 10. Which couples get engaged while out for a walk?
Lizzie & Darcy
: 11. "You must allow me to tell you how ardently I admire and love you." Who says these words? (and you have rocks in your head if you can't answer this one)
Darcy
: 13. Who writes of whom: "She is the only woman in the world whom I could ever think of as a wife"?
Edmund Bertram?
: 14. Which couple falls in love over poetry?
Louisa and Capt Bennick
: 15. Who wears his fiancee's hair set in a ring?
Willoughby
Follow Ups:
In Reply to: Re: Jane Austen's Lovers: A Quiz posted by Amy on September 01, 1996 at 15:24:58:
: : 15. Who wears his fiancee's hair set in a ring?
: Willoughby
No, I take that back. It was Edward Ferrars.
In Reply to: Re: Lizzie and Darcy ... and Ralph Waldo posted by Steve on September 01, 1996 at 09:54:34:
: Steve suggested:
: There is an abbreviated version of the Myers-Briggs (about 70 questions) in the book _Please Understand Me_, by David Keirsey and Marilyn Bates. As Joan suggests, it might be fun for those of us who have it to attempt to take the test 'as' the characters of Darcy and Lizzie. Then compare the results of see how much variation there is among our interpretations.
For Mac users who might be interested (for whatever purpose) there is an abbreviated version (possibly the same one) in a Hypercard stack - and it does all of the scoring automatically. I'd be surprised if it could not be found using shareware.com - and there might possibly be something similar on other hardware platforms.
Joan
In Reply to: Myers-Briggs posted by Amy on September 01, 1996 at 11:33:16:
Amy wrote:
: I like the ideas proposed about M-B. [stuff snipped] I don't even remember my type, but wouldn't mind finding out if Steve or Joan or somebody else will coordinate it. I find I am maxed out on the time I am willing to devote to this board; it's a case of having too many non-paying projects going. Everybody's been there.
So true (been there) - in fact I debated the wisdom of posting at all, but could not resist - so am definitely not volunteering to organize *anything*, but I did do a quick search on Shareware.com and got the following (let's see how much html works here):
| Files from the amug-mac archive
(since Sep 1,1996) | ||
|
myers-briggs.sit.hqx 
educ/teacher/ Jul 18,1996 36 K |
Myers Briggs - Myers Briggs is a personality test that you can take on the Mac. This test will tell you what type of personality you have and lists the characteristics of these types. This test can be a good barometer as to whether the type of person you are picking for a certain position has the correct personality to excel in that position. Requires HyperCard. |
(A quick search of the Windows archives turned up nothing, but I didn't try DOS or anything else.)
Joan
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