So, no good, moral young woman every gave in

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So, no good, moral young woman every gave in Written by kathleen (elder) (10/17/2009 5:43 a.m.) in consequence of the missive, Marianne seduced?, penned by Bridget D

to her passion for a good-looking, persuasive young man? Not ever?

Do you believe that all women who gave in were simply immoral or weak-willed or inherently bad, then? I disagree: I think many young women with high standards fall prey to passion & persuasion.

Marianne probably would have been shocked if Willoughby had simply suggested "sleeping with" him. And I don't believe that Marianne ever intended to "sleep with" Willoughby, but I think she could have been persuaded to do so under certain circumstances. And she might try to persuade herself that it wasn't wrong, because they were essentially engaged, etc.

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She shall forgive me again, and on more reasonable grounds Robbin (10/10/2009 3:05 a.m.)

Comparing confessions. (longish) nan duval (10/16/2009 11:18 p.m.)
- Great summary - MarianneR (10/21/2009 4:21 a.m.)
- Lovely summary of Marianne's repentance, nfm Barb JA (10/17/2009 8:35 a.m.)
  - I agree. Nan you are so clever! nfm (:D) Robbin (10/18/2009 12:17 a.m.)
How can one even think of it... Reeba (10/11/2009 5:14 p.m.)
- PS: There's a time to play, and a time to work.... Reeba (10/13/2009 10:05 a.m.)
  - Monster behind the Mask Robbin (10/13/2009 5:35 p.m.)
- A comfort to W to know how M would look dead? Cathy Allen (10/12/2009 11:13 a.m.)
So how could Elinor and Marianne forgive him? MarianneR (10/11/2009 2:04 p.m.)
- Why wouldn't Elinor forgive? Outi (10/12/2009 2:32 p.m.)
  - Unmerited Forgiveness Robbin (10/14/2009 12:38 a.m.)
  - Elinor's attitude towards Willoughby LouAnn (10/12/2009 3:03 p.m.)
- Elinor is in a vulnerable state of mind. Reeba (10/11/2009 4:08 p.m.)
  - Marrying Eliza Bridget D (10/12/2009 1:53 a.m.)
    - He Had Finished With Her maud l (10/12/2009 1:58 a.m.)
      - intent to marry   Bridget D (10/12/2009 2:11 a.m.)
        
        In defence of Eliza   Elizabeth K (10/12/2009 6:29 a.m.)
        
        Eliza's fault?   Bridget D (10/15/2009 4:23 a.m.)
        
        If we knew when Eliza's birthday was...   Cathy Allen (10/15/2009 11:11 a.m.)
        
        Statutory   Bridget D (10/15/2009 1:18 p.m.)
        
        Willoughby and Eliza (again!)   Elizabeth K (10/16/2009 8:42 a.m.)
        
        Marianne seduced   CarolTS (10/16/2009 5:37 p.m.)
        
        Even good girls can be weak on occasion :-)   kathleen (elder) (10/16/2009 5:52 p.m.)
        
        Marianne   BarbaraB (10/17/2009 11:27 a.m.)
        
        Rationalizing her behaviour   Barbara (10/16/2009 9:23 p.m.)
        
        Marianne seduced?   Bridget D (10/17/2009 5:22 a.m.)
        
        So, no good, moral young woman every gave in   kathleen (elder) (10/17/2009 5:43 a.m.)
        
        I agree   Robbin (10/18/2009 12:15 a.m.)
        
        Of course they did!   Outi (10/17/2009 10:30 a.m.)
        
        I agree   Ramya (10/17/2009 12:26 p.m.)
        
        Jane Austen's Marianne   Bridget D (10/17/2009 6:06 a.m.)
        
        Any Marianne   BarbaraB (10/17/2009 1:54 p.m.)
        
        Marianne as seducible   Bridget D (10/18/2009 7:31 a.m.)
        
        Austen's heroines   Elizabeth K (10/18/2009 11:38 a.m.)
        
        principles versus convention   Bridget D (10/19/2009 7:09 a.m.)
        
        Time to stop this discussion   kathleen (elder) (10/19/2009 7:36 a.m.)
        
        I think many young women, including fictional   kathleen (elder) (10/17/2009 7:08 a.m.)
        
        If loving you is wrong, I don't want to be right   TimLee (10/16/2009 10:46 p.m.)
        
        Good Point   maud l (10/16/2009 6:06 p.m.)
        
        well I'll agree to disagree   Bridget D (10/16/2009 2:08 p.m.)
        
        Which is exactly what you've been saying   CarolTS (10/15/2009 5:11 p.m.)
        
        Exactly, Cathy Allen.   Elizabeth K (10/15/2009 1:14 p.m.)
        
        She had no money   kathleen (elder) (10/12/2009 6:26 a.m.)
        
        I wonder...   Barbara (10/12/2009 12:18 p.m.)
        
        Exactly.   nan duval (10/12/2009 10:09 a.m.)
  - She's also had next to no sleep Barbara (10/11/2009 5:56 p.m.)
- Elinor's forgiveness. Rachel G (10/11/2009 3:37 p.m.)
  - Distraction; Elinor's wedge (part 2); cooler reflection in ch45 Tom P2 (10/11/2009 6:44 p.m.)
Forgiving Willoughby Rachel G (10/10/2009 8:46 p.m.)
- I think he's actrually... Reeba (10/11/2009 4:13 p.m.)
Does ANYONE agree that W explained himself? Let's vote! Cathy Allen (10/10/2009 4:15 p.m.)
- No, I don't, because... Reeba (10/11/2009 3:08 p.m.)
- Taking your question literally... Rachel G (10/10/2009 8:49 p.m.)
  - Excuse me, does ANYONE feel that W vindicated himself? Cathy Allen (10/11/2009 12:55 p.m.)
    - My apologies, Cathy Allen. Rachel G (10/11/2009 1:21 p.m.)
  - I like your summary very much, Rachel G Outi (10/11/2009 5:08 a.m.)
  - WIllougby's repentance Bridget D (10/11/2009 5:05 a.m.)
    - Unrepentant Wrongdoer Robbin (10/13/2009 9:40 a.m.)
    - Like a child Barbara (10/11/2009 6:08 p.m.)
      - More like a spoilt brat. One of Lady M's own :-D nfm Reeba (10/12/2009 6:48 a.m.)
      - Yeah, he lost the package deal   Karen G. (10/11/2009 10:35 p.m.)
        
        And of course, the spoiled brat   nan duval (10/12/2009 10:12 a.m.)
        
        Ooooo -- VERY well said, nan! (nfm)   Cathy Allen (10/12/2009 10:44 a.m.)
- No maud l (10/10/2009 5:46 p.m.)
What this says about Willoughby---and Brandon Mary Anne (10/10/2009 10:15 a.m.)
- The horsewhip? I believe that TimLee has it. Graciela (10/11/2009 11:22 p.m.)
- Comparing the confessions Barbara (10/11/2009 6:21 p.m.)
  - Dread of One Event Robbin (10/14/2009 12:31 a.m.)
    - Omission of the duel. Rachel G (10/14/2009 1:34 p.m.)
      - But weren't duels illegal? Outi (10/16/2009 1:33 p.m.)
        
        Very true. Rachel G (10/16/2009 1:55 p.m.)
      - Willoughby's dread of Marianne's marriage   Barbara (10/14/2009 2:40 p.m.)
        
        Col Brandon�s Advantage   Robbin (10/14/2009 8:47 p.m.)
        
        Money again...   MarianneR (10/15/2009 4:47 a.m.)
  - further comparison Karen G. (10/11/2009 10:24 p.m.)
    - I like the word *performer* for Willoughby. nfm Reeba (10/12/2009 12:53 p.m.)
  - No embellishments Mary Anne (10/11/2009 8:15 p.m.)
- Excellent analysis Reeba (10/11/2009 4:19 p.m.)
- Wonderful insight, nfm Barb JA (10/11/2009 8:56 a.m.)

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