Quick Index Board Index Home FAQ Site Map

View thread | Previous message | Next message


My character requires that it be written, not read ;-) Long   Written by Tarn (10/17/2008 4:38 a.m.) in consequence of the missive, Before you go to all that trouble, penned by JulieW
Are you new?

The worst thing about checking references is, how little they resemble the claims I have made on them.

Firstly, correcting egregious errors about ships and dates that are not to be attributed to Ms Le Faye or the Austen-Leighs:
According to "Jane Austen: A Family Record" (1) ( With some supplementary details from "Sailor Brothers"(2)), Charles Austen was promoted from First Lieutenant of the Endymion, and departed for Nova Scotia as the Commander of the sloop Indian, in October 1804.
He took La Jeune Estelle as a prize on the 19th of June 1808, and he was promoted to Post Captain of the Swiftsure in May 1810.
He was then promoted to Captain of the Cleopatra in September 1810, and the Cleopatra (Not Canopus) bore him and his young family back to England in April 1811.
So, while it is fair to say Charles Austen was enforcing the Orders in Council that Mr Roosevelt lists as one of the causes of the war of 1812(3), when the war was officially declared (in June 1812), he was in England, living on board the Tamur with his wife and children, guarding the Nore off Sheerness, and had been for more than a year.

Secondly, the best thing about checking references is, finding answers to Marianne’s question that are more wonderful that any I could have confabulated:

For instance, the Naval Chronicle . (5)
According to a review in the September 2000 issue of the Journal of Maritime Research by Brian Lavery (6)
"The original Naval Chronicle was a publishing phenomenon from its first publication in 1799 to its demise twenty years later.”... “it naturally found a market among naval officers during the great wars with France, when the naval procession was at its largest and most successful. But it also aimed at a wider audience. As the publisher wrote in the first issue: ‘We shall endeavor to make The Naval Chronicle as useful and interesting library of itself to the seamen, and an acceptable work to everyone who partakes of the glory acquitted by our brave countrymen in their own element.’"

And so it is. This publication is a corker, with memoirs on the lives of Naval heroes (and plugs for the editors own biographies), reports of actions and naval politics; first hand accounts of shipwreck and survival, of the eruption of Mt Etna, the first English language accounts of Humboldt’s discovery of the Orinoco; for the more practically minded reader there are 'Philosophical papers' showing how to make nautical devices invented by the correspondents, street maps of Cadiz and Antwerp, specs of new ships; to dim undesirable ambitions there are discouraging reports from attempted émigrés to America; to feed the soul, there are poems contributed anonymously by luminaries and sublunaries; also news of births (including one of a Captains wive giving birth to a son at sea), marriages and information about deaths in action that the official gazettes don’t include.(7) It is still distractingly entertaining and interesting, and news from it was retailed in the newspapers, in the same section as the Navy list.

Another (rather obvious) reason for interest in the Navy lists that I had overlooked was money.
The Navy was inextricably entangled in the business interests of England, especially the East India Company. Much of their work was escorting British merchant ships, attempting to build and protect monopolies or at least to prevent other nations profiting at their expense from the high war-time prices of commodities.(8)
Lloyds Marine List (which was published in the newspapers) reported the arrivals and departures of Navy vessels as well as merchant, and also (in 1803) formed a Patriotic fund to provide for the widows, orphans and veterans of Navy sailors killed or maimed in action. They also used this fund to provide awards for bravery in action. (While the Navy distributed prize money for privateers captured, the men who manned the ships of the line were risking their lives to destroy ships that only carried cannons and cannon fodder. The Navy did announce the awards Lloyds gave, in their gazettes). (9)
Suppliers and tenderers to the Navy (there were many) would be looking at the lists for the arrivals as well as the shipping magnates. They had to be ready when ships came in - there were times when a ship would need to come into port for supplies and set sail again in hours (for example, when Francis Austen sailed the Canopus into Gibraltar on the 6th of May 1805, and out again in four hours, as the wind swung in their favour) (10)
And of course, both Lloyds and the Navy lists could be used for the purveyors and publicans who traded by the docks to know how many cashed up patrons to expect.

Prize money was another financhial reason people were interested in the naval lists.(11) There was the kind of innocent excitement that makes a lottery win interesting news to people who didn't have the winning ticket or even know the person who does, and there was also the more covetous ability to calculate, from the rank and rate of an officer and the value of the prize, how much money he should have.

Even businesses that were not directly involved with the Navy were still very much affected by, and interested in the role it played in the global economy of the time. For example: Henry Austen was an army agent and banker, with demand for his services as an agent being indirectly generated by the Navy (as the war was not fought on British soil) and for his services as a banker, by economic conditions that came about as a consequence of the war.(12)
There were also many people who invested their fortune directly in Navy bonds, including Miss Austen herself.(13)

Finally, the long list:
Referred to in this post:
(1) W. Austen-Leigh, R.A. Austen-Leigh & Deirdre Le Faye, Jane Austen a Family Record, (London: British Library,1993)pp.123,129,143,164,166-7,194

(2) J.H. Hubback & E. C. Hubback, Jane Austen’s Sailor Brothers, (London: John Lane, 1906) pp.122,205,207,210,211,266,269

(3) T. Roosevelt, The Naval Ware of 1812,(New York:G.P. Putman’s Sons,1882)p.13

(4) D.S. Heidler , J.T. Heidler,Encyclopeadia of the War of 1812, (Santa Barbara:ABC-CLIO, 1997)p426
also W. James, F. Chamier, The Naval History of Great Britain, (London: R. Bentley, 1837)p. 362

(5) Stephen Jones, James Stanier Clarke, John Jones, The Naval Chronicle, (London: Bunney & Gold, 1799)

(6) Brian Lavery, The Contemporary Record of the Royal Navy at War, (Journal for Maritime Research,2000) September. (at http://www.jmr.nmm.ac.uk)

(7)The link is to the first volume, but the material I referred to is in the later half of 1810:

The Naval Chronicle, (London: J. Gold, 1810) Vol.23 pp. 1,62, 284, 44, 33, 29, 486, 472, 245, 112, 94, 65, 264 (Except for the report of Humboldt – that is in Vol. 14, 1805, p. 307)

(8) J. Stephen, War in Disguise, Or, The Frauds of the Neutral Flags(London: C. Whittingham, 1806)p.8
also A. Smith, Wealth of Nations, (London: G. Walker, 1822)Vol.2, Bk IV, Ch.7, pt.3, p.439

(9) < A HREF=" http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/bravery.htm "> Record of Bravery Awards at Guildhall Library at http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/bravery.htm
also picture of a Lloyds award at http://www.rmc.ca/other/museum/gallery/dockyard6_e.html

(10) J.H. Hubback & E. C. Hubback, Jane Austen’s Sailor Brothers, (London: John Lane, 1906) p.51

(11) J.R. Hill, Oxford Illustrated History of the Royal Navy(Oxford: Oxford University Press,1995) “The Navy and the Nation” by D. Bough Chapter 5, p156-60

(12) W. Austen-Leigh, R.A. Austen-Leigh & Deirdre Le Faye, Jane Austen a Family Record, (London: British Library,1993) p.116
and D. Ricardo On the Principles of Political Economy and Taxation, (London: John Murray, 1821) Ch.27 p.437

(13) W. Austen-Leigh, R.A. Austen-Leigh & Deirdre Le Faye, Jane Austen a Family Record, (London: British Library,1993)p.211

Referred to in my previous post:
the quod/removals from merchant vessels/capture and use of foreign forces/removal from foreign merchant vessels-

J.R. Hill, Oxford Illustrated History of the Royal Navy(Oxford: Oxford University Press,1995) “Seamen and Manning” by D. Bough Chapter 5p133-9
The dates Mr Bough gives are often a lot earlier than our era, but that it was still a live issue can be seen from pamphlets protesting, or at least proposing change to, the impress in our era, and twenty years after our era, in

J.S.Bromley,The Manning of the Royal Navy(London: Navy Records Society,1976)
Pamphlet 14. pp.160-72, Anon, The effects of the Impress of Seamen Considered in the Epoch of 1810(London: G. Hayden, 1810)
Pamphlet15. pp.173-188 , Admiral Sir Thomas Byam Martin, Impressment of Seamen, (London: Roake & Varty,1834)

Seamen enslaved in Tunisa/dying of fever in West Indies/shot through and through in action-

J.R. Hill, Oxford Illustrated History of the Royal Navy(Oxford: Oxford University Press,1995) “Seamen and Manning” by D. Bough Chapter 5 p.140
also-
S. Lane-Poole,The Barbary Corsairs,(NY: Cornell University Press,1959)Ch.21,especially p.295

Congress raises taxes to build a navy /recruitment in US Navy-
M. Smelser, Congress Founds a Navy,(IN: University of Notre Dame Press, 1962)

Size of the US merchant Navy/range of good traded –
U.S. Department of Commerce,Historical Statistics of the United States, Colonial Times to 1970,Vol.2, series Q518-523, pp. 751, 761
And –
H. Adams,The United States in 1800, (NY:Cornell University Press,1962) Ch.19 “Physical and Economical Conditions”
(The title is a bit of a misnomer – it actually covers the whole of the Jefferson administration.)

Size of the Royal Navy –
global distribution of Royal Navy- at www.knmi.nl/cliwoc/images
Clive Wilkinson, British Logbooks in UK Archives (Draft Report National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, Climate Database Modernization Program ,2006) Appendix II has sixteen maps from the same database, that show the typical sailing routes of the era.
( I found Dr Wilkinson’s wonderful work at http://icoads.noaa.gov/reclaim)
Also-
C.S.Forester, The Age of Fighting Sail,(NY:Doubleday,1956)pp.19-20

Account from a British captain on the way searches were conducted-
R.G. Albion & J.B. Pope, Sea lanes in wartime, (CN: Archon, 1968) p91
Accounts of abuses in US papers-

Norfolk Gazette and Ledger Oct23, 1805
British assessment of threat posed by US Navy-

Morning Chronicle (London, England), Thursday August 6, 1807; Issue 11925 Admiral Berkeley’s order (to search the US Navy ship Chesapeake for British sailors to impress).

Courier (London, England), Monday January 21,1811
“The sea is ours…no cockboat shall sail upon it without our permission”

Heroism and individualism in Naval war unlike now –

W.James,Naval Occurances in the War of 1812,(London:Coway Maritime Press, 2004) Appendix
The correspondence between Commodore Decatur, of the US President to Captain Hardy while the latter was leading the blockade at the mouth of Long Island Sound, preventing Decatur’s squadron from leaving the Thames river . In flat contravention of written orders received only a month earlier, Decatur writes to Hardy, proposing they enter into a two on two engagement, the US President and HMS Macedonia vs and the HMS Endymion..
Even more remarkable is the reply.
Captain Hardy agrees to a one-on-one engagement between US Macedonia and HMS Statira, but (Oh, the irony) does not consider the HMS Endymion equal to the US President. He then gives details of her weaknesses to the enemy. He then appends the admiration for Decatur’s gallantry and regrets of the two British captains who would have taken part.

Celebrity Captains- Ticket to attend Nelsons funeral
It is true that even unfamous people sometimes had funeral tickets in those days - but Nelson had what it takes to make it onto the lid of ladies patch box (these pictures are from the National Maritime Museam website’s Nelson commemoration collection, http://www.nmm.ac.uk)

A.B.C Whipple and the Editors of Time-Life books ”Fighting Sail”(Amsterdam: Time-Life,1978) p169 has photographs of a different type of patch box with a commemorative portrait of Nelson on the lid, and a mass produced commemorative cream jug (1830's).

Another cream jug, showing Admiral Lord George Rodney and also CaptianHood, who started his illustrious career in the Royal Navy as the captains serving boy in 1720, and was Admiral of the White when he retired from active service in 1795. He died in Bath, in 1816, and I am mentioning him only to show that Nelson was not the only Admiral to be commemorated in this way. The picture comes from Martyn Edgell Antiques ( www.edgell.me.uk)


Previous message | Next message | Board index

All messages in the thread


Password:

Groupread is maintained by Myretta with WebBBS 3.21.


View thread | Previous message | Next message
Board index

Group Read Board Pride & Prejudice Board Emma Board Sense & Sensibility Board Persuasion Board Mansfield Park Board Northanger Abbey Board Austenuations Board Jane Austen's Life & Times Board Lady Catherine & Co. Board Library Board Virtual Views Board Ramble Board Meetings Board Newcomers' Board Milestones Board Help Board Pemberleans Board





- Jane Austen | Republic of Pemberley -

Quick Index Home Site Map JAInfo

© 2004 - 2012 The Republic of Pemberley

Get copyright permissions

Quantcast